Another 22 no do for comments.

Good points Jack. Also, if you are going to dabble on ebay, make sure the seller has an ironclad return policy. Even then, it's risky business.

As far as the coin being a 12-d, the spacing of the second 2 doesn't look correct to me; so I don't think that is a possibility. The 2 on my 12-d is much further from the rim.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

johnny,

This can be easily explained as they were more than likely produced from different Dies! I edited the pictures again, added contrast and converted the image to greyscale and included it below. I think that you will see that it is not a 1922-D but in fact a 1912-D.


Frank

 

Sorry huntsman, I'm not seeing it at all. still looks like a 22 to me. I wasn't aware that they used different distances between digits on different dates in the Lincoln series on different dies(besides the small/large dates)...but good info to know. I don't agree with you, but I will carefully check your theory when I get a closer look at the coin, as will I check for RLM's weak d perspective. Actually I don't really agree with anyone's theory so far. I guess I'm all mavericky like Sara Palin....:goofer: The photos here are obviously lacking and giving way to a bunch of interpretations.

 

johnny,

Up until the early 1900's, all four digits of the Date were punched manually into the Working Dies. From 1909 into the mid-1980's, the first two digits of the Date were part of the Galvano and the last two digits were still punched manually into the Working Dies. Then sometime in the mid-1980's, all four digits of the Date became a part of the Galvano and manual punching of any Date digits ended. Go to the link below for more information on RPD's:

http://www.bakercoins.net/learn/variety/rpd/index.html

The above, is one reason why that with any U.S. coins dated before the mid-1980's, the positioning of the digits in the Date can vary sometimes significantly from one working Die to the next! Combine the above with positioning problems when transferring the details and lettering from one Die to the next (Master Die to Master Hub, Master Hub to Working Hub, Working Hub to Working Die), this can significantly effect where the date is punched into the Working Dies since the details and lettering may be shifted further from the rim on one side or the other.

I am probably wrong about the coin being a 1912-D but that is what it looks like to me! Also, I am hoping that you can understand from the above, that every 1922-D or even a 1912-D Cent will more than likely have different positioning of the digits in the Date and that the Date can be further to the East, West, North or South from one coin to the next!


Frank

 

thanks for the info Frank! I'm so fortunate to have all you guys to learn from.:thumb:

 

Here is one that I actually own. I had not previously posted my pics of it, but its currently filling the 22 plain slot in my album. I think it may be a weak d die #3. It seems to have all of the die characteristics of #3 including the reverse counterclockwise rotation. Is this a true weak d, or is there too much d showing?

 

Everything I see says you are correct. I am not at home right now to get a good standard, but that is a solid fine, and maybe very fine, from my memory.

 

It has everything it's suppose to to be a die #3. :thumb:

Nice!

Ribbit

Ps: Great pics BTW.

 

Updated Pics as Promised

Here are newest pictures of the 1922 thingy I originally posted as I now have the coin in hand to examine. There appears to be no d or bump protrusion after staring at the coin from all angles under a 30x loupe. The marks surrounding it are incuse and don't bear resemblence to a d in my opinion.

Die Pair #2:
• Absolutely no trace of a D
• Second 2 in date is sharper than the first 2.
• All letters in TRUST are sharp.
• WE is only slightly mushy.
• L in LIBERTY butts up against the rim.
• Reverse is sharp with nice wheat lines.

Also, another diagnostic not mentioned on Lincoln resource is the weakness of LIBER, and a strong TY, which is true on this example. All of these characteriistics match though the wheat lines aren't sharp. However, in this case I believe it is due to wear as the reverse is much stronger than the obverse. It could be a well made fake as some are. There is no die rotation on the reverse, so that rules out a die 3. No die crack between O and L on the reverse, and L butts up against the rim; so that eliminates die 1. I'm pretty sure this is not a "weak" reverse. And it's definitely not a 1912.

I still stand by my opinion that it is either a die 2, or a regular 22-d that was altered to look like a die 2. I will probably have it expertly examined.

John

 

I see nothing in you analysis that I can say is wrong. From what I see, you have a 1922- die #2 that probably would grade VG. Congratulations!

All that being said, I would still take it to a knowledgeable dealer to examine it in hand and I would then further have it certified by your favorite slabber.

 

we'll do. I should probably send it to ANACS because of the scratches(though they look much worse in the pics than in real life). thanks!

 

22 D's are a year I really want to learn more about. Theres so much to learn about them. maybe I'll come back here and post when have more knowledge on the subject

 

Yeah, there is a lot of complexity to the 22 cent, and a lot I'm still learning. I've spent many hours looking at heritage auctions and various resources about this coin and the varieties, as well as posting pictures of them on coincommunity and cointalk for input. There are a PLETHORA of fakes on ebay. The one in the picture was the first one I have decided to purchase(besides the weak d posted earlier). It definitely was a risk as I bought it raw on ebay, based off of the pictures that I posted earlier (The ones that nobody believed were of a die 2). However, the seller stressed multiple times in the auction that he would offer a full refund including shipping if not satisfied. He also guarenteed it to be a die 2, and commented on the inaccuracies of the photo. I thought I could make out the diagnostics for a die 2 based off of his photos, but the apparent "d-ish" mark on his photos that everyone here pointed out had me quite concerned. I rolled the dice as a calculated risk, as I knew it would be an amazing deal if it turned out to be a real die 2; and if not, I would take him up on his return and be out nothing(given of course that he is honest enough to honor the return). Turns out, this coin is a winner. I got a bit lucky on this purchase, but many MANY people have lost hundreds to thousands from purchases of fake 22s on ebay. I honestly would probably never buy one of these raw again. Here is a link to the original listing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=150306826961

I think the reason it sold for that low(and I bid low too), is a combination of the fact that it ended on election night, and also the suspicious looking marking that was discussed as a potential d.

Now that I have the coin in hand, I can clearly see the marks and nicks and that they dont indicate any existance of a d; weak, past, or present.
I can finally fill the "1922 plain" hole in my dansco album with the real deal.

Now, here is the final question. Every hole is filled in my Lincoln Dansco album besides the 1909-s vdb. This coin is housed in an ANACS slab. Should I remove it so I can fill that last slot?? I've spent lots of time pondering this...lol.

 

That is an absolutely completely personal decision. You will find several threads on this site dealing with whether or not to slab/keep slabbed coins.

FWIW, this is my answer to your dilemma. The pic came out a little fuzzy, but I think you get the idea.

 

That's a good thought RLM. In addition, I could build an extra page for the album and then mount the ANACS slabbed 09-s vdb into the center of the page. Or maybe get some velcro stickers to mount to the anacs slab and velcro it to the back side of the front cover. hmmm

 

This is what I ended up doing. I bought some velcro stickers and attached the slab to the front cover, so it comes with the binder. You can remove the slab and view the reverse. I made a plug for the spot in the binder. I'm thinking about getting my 14-d, 31-s and 09-s slabbed in addition to the 22 plain and just make plugs for each space. That way, it still looks like a collection.

Are there any other comments on the updated photos of the 22-? I posted?

 

If that floats your boat, go for it. As I stated before, it is completely up to you, but I don't think that will work too well for my 36 slabs per page.

 

Impressive, full book. :thumb:
I would buy a 1909-S VDB replica. Burry it for a few days, wear it down just to bring it down to a VF-25 and give it a nice brown color. Just an idea....