Hi all A while ago, some of you may recall that I was on the hunt for an affordable ancient Greek gold coin as the center piece of my "ancient Greek states" collection. The criteria I set out for myself were: 1. A Greek gold coin from any ancient Greek state/city (I wasn't fussed whether it was Bactrian, Seleucid, Bosporus, Ptolemaic, Macedonian, or whatever) 2. A period where the relevant Greek state was still independent (i.e. that it wasn't a client state of Rome or whatever) 4. At least 12mm in diameter, and preferably 15mm or more (which ruled out El Hekte coins) 4. Less than $1500 USD (not including auction fees etc) I had a few good recommendations from the good folk at CT, and landed my sights on seeking out a bargain basement Phillip II or Alexander III gold stater. I achieved my goal with the following coin. At the time, I was both pleased and a bit "hmmm" about the purchase, as it went right up to my maximum bid (within 5%) without going over. Pure luck? Or something else? Alexander III ‘the Great’, 336-323 BC gold stater Obverse: head of Athena to right, wearing Corinthian helmet decorated with a serpent. Reverse: AΛEΞANΔΡOΥ Nike standing front, head to left, with her wings spread, holding laurel wreath in her right hand and stylis in her left; below left wing, crescent above A Mint: Lampsakos Diameter: 17 mm Weight: 8.60g My question is, was the price I paid actually an ok price? Or did I overpay? I ask, because I entered my absolute maximum bid on the coin before going to bed that evening (given almost all ancient auctions are at ungodly hours for us in Australia). I thought doing that would be ok, as an auction is an auction, and the bidding is the bidding. However, I later learned about shill bidding in a CT thread where it was discussed at some length, So... I guess I'm in two minds about my purchase. On the one hand, I have a beautiful piece of history in my collection, that would have been difficult to obtain for the criteria (i.e. price) I set out. But on the other hand, I can't help but feel that I was shilled. I've done some acsearches, and the reality is that holed gold staters don't come up very often, so it's difficult to establish a "market value". Thoughts? AC
I have no answers to any of your questions. All I can say, is that as a lover of all things Nike/Victory, your coin is absolutely beautiful. Given the funds, I would be happy to add that coin to my collection any day of the week.
Thank you. This comment gives me some comfort. I guess if I did get shilled, it's nice to know that perhaps, at the very least, I didn't get taken to the cleaners.
it looks good to me....maybe an expert can comment on it and either set your mind at ease...or .........i could on, but i think its ok.....
Firstly it is an absolutely amazing coin, obverse and reverse.. that helmet is outstanding! A worthy centerpiece to any collection. I don't know enough to give you answers on price... other than understanding if you are happy with the "discount" you received for the coin being holed? Without the hole this would have been outside your set budget ... so I would call it a big win! As for the shill bidding? I doubt it .. also you set your max bid and didn't go higher.. if you were at a real time auction and you got a little over heated and overspent your budget I could see the remorse setting in. I think you should enjoy the coin and the win!
Great coin, in my book also a bargain in that quality, I think the hole kept it a reasonable price. Congratulations on a fantastic pick up.
Firstly, thanks for your comments. Secondly, in re to this question: "other than understanding if you are happy with the "discount" you received for the coin being holed?" - yes, that is exactly what my question comes down to. Was the "discount" appropriate for the hole? Or was the price artificially driven up because of the way in which I bid? It sounds like the answer is "we don't know", but also, I should be happy with the coin for the price. Which honestly, I am (provided I wasn't taken to the cleaners).
Nice quality coin. I would say the price is ok. One without a hole probably will cost 2-3 times the price. I am also looking for an ancient gold coin to add into my collection. The Alexander gold stater seems to be the best choice for a budget collector. Good art style and rich history.
Yes, I think you're right. At least double the cost. As an alternative to Phillip II and Alexander III, you may wish to consider Mithridates VI - the only question is whether or not you think Pontus was Greek enough. I thought probably, but as you say, the history is richer with an Alexander III.
I remember there was a thread with such complaints about this auction company. Looking at the intrinsic value of gold content in this coin, I would say the metal is worth 350-400 USD. Looking in CNG recent esales you can find a few gold staters if Alexander or successors which are not holed for 1700-2000 USD. Should this have been a modern gold imitation for jewellery I don't think you would have paid less than 700-800usd This exact coin was sold by the same auctioneers for 950 about 6 months earlier than you got it. So did you get screwed? Probably yes although not big time in my opinion. IMHO the inherent issue was that you placed a strict limit (1500) and you might have been impatient to get one. These are not rare at all so if you waited enough you could get a better coin for the money you gave. For various reasons which I intend to explain in a future post, I am stopping collecting. If you need any advice when screening your future purchases please feel free to send me a PM. I would be happy to provide my opinion and I will certainly not have a conflict of interest. Same goes for all in this forum.
You have picked up on everything I feared. I agree that one of the issues was that I may have been impatient, particularly with my "fixed budget". Worse so, with this particular auction house (and yes I did see the previous sale price 6 months prior, but I find that odd too). I would say however the non-holed offerings for 1700 USD or so are not as fine as the coin above. Yes, it's holed, but it's VF and well centred.
Price is very fair and it's a nice coin. Holes don't really bother me that much on a coin with fine style as yours.
Thank you, good to hear your view. So broadly, is it fair to say, that even though the price may (but maybe not) have been inflated, it was probably a fair price (or close to fair price) for what it is?
CHF 1500 for an Alexander stater (even with a hole) is good value in my view. This example was ridiculously underestimated at CHF 350 by the auction house in question (their standard practice).
I can't weigh in on the shill issue, but regardless that is a really beautiful coin with excellent style.
You had several VF kyzikene in your past esales in the range 1200-1800 pounds. These are much rarer (even with the recent hoard getting dispersed) twice as heavier and IMHO would be colossal bargains compared to a holed stater of Alexander sold for 1500CHF.... And I have to say that I never felt like getting shill bids against me in your auctions.
I would have been happy to pay that for such a well-preserved and finely styled coin. Price at auctions can be so random that I don't think it pays to obsess over it too much. I would enjoy looking at that coin for the next 50 years. John