Coin Talk 70 grade Coin Contest - no prize just fun

Now that is an outright lie. The only reason this thread was started was so that Ruben could attempt to prove that his position that he stated in the other thread "Clearly Some people have too much money and not enough brains" was right. He accused me of twisting his words and of trolling. So he blocked my posts and started this thread in a desperate attempt to prove his point. Not only has he not proven his point, he is lying about his motives and resorted to calling the rest of children because we can't possibly understand the workings of his genius mind.

Give us a break already Ruben. You are wrong, everyone knows you are wrong, and if you really want proof, then put you money where your mouth is. Ante up and bet. Nobody in there right mind is going to crack out a coin in a 70 holder. It is a lose lose proposition. You still have to pay the submission fee and you can't possibly upgrade. The only way to do it is to bet on the results. You stated earlier that you think that only 10% of all 70's would grade 70 upon resubmission. I will give you 50% just to be fair. We will get an independent 3rd party to purchase 5 different MS70 ASE's crack them out and resubmit them. The wager will be for double the total cost of the coins and the submission fees. If 3 drop in grade you win, if two drop in grade I win. The winner gets the money and then must pay the independent 3rd party the cost of the original coins plus 2x the submission fees for the time and effort. The winner is then left with the full cost of the coins plus the actual coins whatever the grade may be. If the 3rd party wants collatarel, that can be arranged as well.

If you want a higher percentage than 50% then you must either admit that you don't have an e-mail from any grader at NGC or PCGS stating that they assign the 70 grade arbitrarily. If you admit that then I will say that 4 of the 5 will come back as MS70.

Put you money where your mouth is Ruben. I am tired of your smack talk and all of your ridiculous statements. Please remember, I make $1,000 bets everyday at the poker table, this proposed bet is serious.

Now either put up or shut up!

Somebody quote this so he can see it.

 

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But it is for fun so I give you can do it. I know you have a Franklin somewhere ungraded that would be fun to have others see if they can find an imperfection in it.

People grade coins from photos all the time, like it or not and for big money. Just look at Heritage.

 

We're looking at ungraded coins but for what it is worth, your 70 has a spot on the sun and read nowhere about discounting the coins for the kind of imperfection in the luster that your talking about. There is a wave in the face? So it is not a perfect mirror? So what? DP Cam is a different attribute not part of the grade.

Ruben

 

On this one you have something near the rear leg on the skirt that I don't have on my graded PR69

Ruben

 

whatever your trying to show in this one, I can't see it. Maybe a straight shot.

 

RUBEN

Sorry, my cable went off or I would have done this earlier

 

Thanks, I will be out of town for wedding. Talk to you guys on Sunday. Hopefully he takes the bet.

 

that's it :vanish: that's it:vanish: that's it :vanish: that's it :vanish: that's it:vanish: that's it ruben :vanish:

Jazzcoins Joe:smile

 

who made that set?

Ruben

 

Have a good trip Lehigh!

 

Accuracy. Think about this word that you just used. I don't think anybody on this forum will ever deny you the fact that the TPGs are not and probably never will be able to claim 100% accuracy at assigning any grade. Since they can't, what percentage would be adequate for you?

Now think about this. The mere mention you make of how accurate are they at grading PF70s, is claiming that in your opinion PF70s exist! This contradicts your argument that they do not.

Their accuracy may be 50,60,70, 80%. No way to know without, as you say, extensively testing the theory. I'm not arguing there can be error!

But I don't need to test it. I'm going to guess that they can be accurate 80% (maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's only 60%) of the time and if I choose to buy a PF70 for not much more over a 69, I'm willing to take my chances that I'm more than likely getting a superior coin over what would typically be considered a 69.

After all these years, why aren't umpires tested by computers over calling balls and strikes in MLB? Seems like an important aspect to know. How accurately and consistantly does an ump call a game? But they don't! And nobody complains. In fact it's worse! Some have large strike zones and some have smaller strike zones, and the teams know who they are! There isn't even a standard to go by. You can't. Players are different heights. The ball comes in at different speeds and countless different angles. Some pitches are a given and many others are judgment calls that everybody has to live with. At 90 to 100 mph, there isn't time to sit there and analyze it like you can sit and grade a coin under magnification for as long as you want. Not to mention, this is ONE person making the calls. Not 4 different people having to agree on it.

If you think 70 grade coins are a huge rip off and can't trust multiple professional's judgment calls, it is dually noted. Don't buy them.

In addition, I'm not here to advocate buying PF70 ASE's. I think it's crazy for how nice they all actually are, to pay 3-4x for a bullion coin, but I just wanted one for comparison. That 08 is the first and likely the last I would buy. That being said, I'm not doubting, for how nice these are, that many, many PF70s exist.

 

It's in a plastic slab! Can you decipher down to that level of detail between the plastic and the coin? If there was a problem to be noted, I would have mentioned it.

As far as the 06 commem, the tiny dots can be seen to the left of "Old Mint" and diagonally across, in the upper right field. Faint, but they are there.

 

Please explain further or circle. Thanks.

 

no, what I'm saying is the grade of 70 doesn't exist until you have a valid process to determine it according to a reasonable standard.

There are some great coins, lots of them. Some are 70's, most are 69's and some are 68 and what I'm saying is that is the reasonable overlap of the finest specimens that are available.

And until you can show me a validated process which is constantly applied correctly which results in a reasonable accuracy on a consistent base, then you have no 70 grade. The truth is that this applies for all the other grades as well, but because of the extremely narrow definition of a 70, it is absolutely necessary to have a validated process which not only could reasonably confirm all the current 70's are 70's, but can also find a majority of the 70's which are parading around as 69's and the 69s parading around as 70's.

Your in good company because Doug believes that as well. I do not. I'm a strong proponent of slabbing but frankly, the TPGer run their operations like it is armature hour. They don't validate their grading processes in a scientific, reliable and provable fashion. They are reluctant to fess up to errors, which we see all day long on this board and other boards, and they're quality control is sloppy and based often on non-objective criteria.

It shouldn't be but this is the best you have.

Nice analogy. I don't by it but that is a great topic for alt.sports.baseball.ny-mets

If they ever create a means to make that judgment, I agree with you and I'm sure a bunch of them will be the highest possible grade.

Ruben

 

These areas I'd like to see close ups of. Remember, this is fun, and we're not making and final pronouncements on the value of your coin.

The area I can't identify is the circled area on the skirt to far right.

 

Come on Ruben. Take Lehigh up on his bet. Then we will all know for sure.

 

I give! Why? And what is it?

 

this is argumentative without adding anything to the conversation. My eyes can objectively see 20/20. sometimes a little better actually. If you want to question eye site, see an ophthalmologist. You still haven't produces a shred of evidence that the 70 grade is verifiable and valid.

Ruben

 

Ok - New coin:

is it 70?