Is it an error or a variety?

Recently we have discussed an 1844/81 overdate large cent I purchased, in the thread http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=42547 I called it an error, others called it a variety yet still it is an overdate. So in your mind when you see an 1858/7 flying eagle, an 1808/7 half dollar, my 1844/81 large cent or any of the other many overdates throughout federal coinage,
What do you think about it?
What is the best way to classify it?
And why do you feel that way?

 

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I call them all a variety. To each his own - penny or cent matters not to me.

 

I have no opinion :} :} :}

 

It's a variety , because the change is in the die , so every coin made from that die has the same changes , example , 1955 DD , '37 three legged nickle .
rzage

 

When we get "back to the basics", it really doesn't matter what we call it. That's semantics.

What counts is the coin itself.

The 1844 / 81 Large 1c is a very interesting coin... instructive too. I think we all learned a thing or two on the original thread.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

An error, as with an off center strike, multiple strike, etc is when an unintentional 'something' happens to the planchet when it is ebing struck.

A variety is in the die and all coins struck are the same. As with an overdate, or as rzage mentioned, the 3 leg Buffalo.

 

the 3 legged buffalo is actually an error. the die started life as a four legged type but an overzealous employee at the mint polished one leg off causing the die to change in mid use. although all coins after that act were 3 legged it is indeed an error.


so much for no opinion!
Richard

 

ziggy:
I wish that I could respect your opinion, but you have:

Location: Pats Country

under your name.

That eliminates you from ANY serious discussion about ANYTHING.
The only good thing about the Pats this season, is that they have already lost 2.

 

I will sit on the sidelines on this one. :whistle:

Ribbit

 

The die is an error the coins struck from it are a variety

The 3 legged is neither a variety nor an error, it is a die stage.

 

In my opinion, it is a variety.

To me, errors are things that happen during planchet preparation and/or striking (broadstruck, double struck, clips), not during die sinking (as is the case with overdates).

Said another way, if it's on the die then it isn't an error (to me)...Mike

 

I'll agree with you on the 1st one , but a die stage is the condition of the die as it wears , thus always changing , the 3 leg Buffalo are all the same at the defining point , missing leg , if it were a die stage the leg would be missing in varying degrees as the die wears .
rzage

 

Yeah - but we can all see you ready to hop.

I think leadfoot said it best.

 

Do these occur when they take a die and change the date for use in a later year and the change just wasn't done well?

My understanding is it is a characteristic of the die that made the coin...and therefore every coin from that die would have it. If that is the case, I'd consider it a variety. In my mind, errors are something that occur by chance and aren't exactly repeated.

 

But in the earlier stage where it has the fourth leg it is still the same die and therefor the same variety. Th three leg is just late die stage of a perfectly normal variety buffalo nickel not a separate variety of its own.

 

Ron Pope titled his book "Buffalo Nickels - The Abraded Die Varieties". In it he lists the reasons behind three-legged, two-feather, and other abraded die variieties.

 

That is exactly the way I see it (I think).

Anything that is done with intent is a variety. Anything that is not done intentionally, is not. This would include the engraving. Variations in design are variety. Why? Because, ultimately, the dies were intentionally made as such. Things such as doubling are errors. Why? Because the process intended to align the hubs properly, but something went wrong. Things like MDD are neither variety nor error...they are damage! (Although obviously the damage was done in err, I do not consider them a numismatic "error" to such affect, but a "striking error", which I correlate with damage).

 

In my opinion its a variety.