Guess the grade--1886 Morgan Dollar

The ANACS slabbed coin is overgraded. The reverse is MS63 or MS64 at best. The obverse should also not be above MS64 due to the major distraction on Liberty's lip despite the fact that the rest of the obverse is outstanding.

As far as the NGC slabbed coin, I don't know what you are seeing. That coin is an MS65 all day long. Here are two photos, mine and the sellers.




Maybe I should post this coin as a guess the grade, I just thought this one would be too easy.

 

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On the Anacs one I see scratching in the obverse field, for one thing.

Ruben

 

Holy guacamole! ANACS gave that coin a 65!?!? And I can't believe that other one, too!

But let me just say this, I agree with Doug and Ruben, except on the body-bagged part. Maybe yesterday, but not today. In fact, for sure, yesterday...that coin's dead meat! But not when the market today defines the rules of the game. They body-bag that coin, and that's like saying there's no market for it. And that's just unacceptable given all that flashy color on it. The TPGs freak out on that, as long as there's a conceivable way they can call it natural. In fact, Lehigh, that's the reason I still call that a fad. Wait until the market gets saturated with these "MS-65s," then you'll see the pendulum beginning to swing back to real grading, condition-grading. Still, JMHO...

 

RIP from Mr. Fussy

Bag, tag, morgue.

Exposed to something or something poured on it. Toning looks worse than artificial, it looks forced.

That slash on the upper lip looks like a scar from a knife fight.

Belongs in a flip labeled " weirdest toning ever."

And yeah, I'm just as strict grading my own.... maybe even stricter.

 

I think the slit in the lip is on the plastic.

Ruben

 

Well that comment sir only serves to prove you don't know the first thing about bag toned Morgans. The toning is original with a stain on the coin. Despite the bag mark on the lip, the coin is still and MS63 or MS64. If you can explain why you think the coin is artificially toned then we can discuss it. If you can't, you should probably not make comments that you can't back up.

BTW. The toning on this coin is not weird at all. If you want weird, I can show you weird.






Those are WEIRD :loud:

 

those aren't at least damaged after being toned. I disagree about the scratch on the lip BTW. A scratch that prominent on the face of Madam Philadelphia would/should disqualify the coin getting above a 63.

Its a deep gash in a crucial part of the coin.

Ruben

 

Well that comment sir only serves to prove you don't know the first thing about bag toned Morgans. The toning is original with a stain on the coin. Despite the bag mark on the lip, the coin is still and MS63 or MS64. If you can explain why you think the coin is artificially toned then we can discuss it. If you can't, you should probably not make comments that you can't back up.

I appreciate your politness Lehigh. If something leaps out from a graded coin and slaps me in the face I think overgraded. I stand by what I said.

When someone posts a counterfiet from China, not yours of course, anyone can see it's just not right. The toning is forced and or artificial. I can't prove it from an image of course. My opinion. It's good you have it slabbed, I'm glad for you.

 

I don't dispute that the coin is overgraded. That was actually the purpose of the OP, but I have a pet peeve about people crying AT without reasons. We can all see the stain, but the underlying toning is undoubtedly original. A stain or environmental damage doesn't transform the toning from NT to AT.

BTW, this coin is very impressive in hand despite the stain. It is not nearly as distracting as the photo makes it appear.

 

OK Lehigh,

The coin is spectacular. I can't tell AT from NT. I wouldn't know a Morgie if it jumped up and bit me.

The coin is totally graded too low. Happy?

 

I agree with you hear. Toning can really look like edited in large photo's I have a toned Merc that looks like it was run over by a railroad car, but isn't that bad of a coin really

 

I am thrilled that your tone has changed from unsubstantiated smack talk to patronizing me. Much better. Thanks!

 

I liked all these toned coins but after seeing more of these problems coins come up I would not touch toned coins. I agree these both come from the same source same year 1886 is a big considink~

 

I'd give it an AU-58 , AU because there looks like slight wear over the ear , I also think it would be body bagged by NGC or PCGS . Like the toning but not the splotchyness from the spill .
rzage

 

Doug,

The 1886 is slabbed by ANACS. It probably was bagged by NGC before getting sent to ANACS.

 

If that coin makes it into a first-tier TPG holder, I'd guess it goes 63 or 64. The toning appears natual to me, but the gash/scratch on the lip (which is NOT a bag mark -- bag marks have reeds) is problematic in my eyes, and if I had to guess that's what kept it out of a PCGS/NGC slab...Mike

 

p.s. Lehigh, I find it a bit disconcerting that you rag people for espousing their opinion that you call unsubstantiated, yet you do the very same thing (e.g. "bag mark", "Add that these coins were submitted to different TPG's years apart and the likelihood that they came from the same bag is extraordinarily small" and "the underlying toning is undoubtedly original"). Remember, we are all entitled to our own opinions, and yours is no more right than anyone else's.

 

Mike,

I am not sure I would call it ragging but if that is how it is being perceived then I will tone it down a little. IMO, there is nothing wrong with people engaging in an opinionated debate. I think it is a very good learning tool.

With regards to unsubstantiated claims, I always try to give reasons for why I have formed my opinion. You are right about the bag mark, I have no proof that it is one, and it very well could be a scratch from some other source. I gave reasons why I thought the coins couldn't come from the same source and Doug gave his reasons why he thought they did. We disagree, but we both have good points. With respect to the underlying toning being original, I know I gave reasons for that.

I don't have a problem with other people's opinions at all, I just want to hear the reasons why they formed the opinion. If I am guilty of the same offense, please point it out so that I may present my reasons for my opinion.