33 Double Eagle at the Federal Reserve in NY?

From:
http://www.numismatics.org/vist96fulton2.htm

Library hours: Tuesday - Friday 9:30am to 4:30pm, closed 12pm-1pm. Calling ahead to set an appointment would be appreciated. Call 212-571-4470 x 1501 or email: Campbell@numismatics.org

Exhibitions: The ANS currently has a major exhibition on view at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York; Drachmas Doubloons and Dollars: The History of Money which includes over 800 examples of the Society's noted collection including the Brasher doubloon, the 1804 dollar, the Confederate States half-dollar, and the world most valuable coin - the 1933 Double Eagle (on loan). http://www.numismatics.org/vist96fulton2.htm


I don't understand this. Why do they not seize the coin?

Ruben

 

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Because the Gov. makes money on each illegal coin they OK , just like they will make the other '33 St Gauden doble eagles legal , if the coin is worth $5,000,000 they'll take half in fees and taxes . JMO
rzage

 

So the one the ANS has is legal? BTW - the government doesn't need to take money, they can print it at will....

Ruben

 

Which they've been doing plenty of lately , that's why the dollar is worth squat next to most of the major currencies . But if they continue to do it without tangible assets to back the money up it will be almost as worthless as the old Japanese yen , 1,000,000 yen to a dollar . it will be $1,000,000 to 1 Euro .
rzage

 

Perhaps it's one of the legal ones that's on loan, and that's why they aren't seizing it?

 

That is what is puzzling me. I thought there were no legal ones.

Ruben

 

I believe the 'King of Siam' piece is the only legal example.

 

Not so. The dollar has strengthened greatly in the last several months vs. euro, British pound, and Canadian dollar.

The finance market fiasco has hit Europe (and their stock exchanges) much worse than the US.

 

I'm talking relatively , it used to be the strongest currency , gaining a little helps but it has a long way to go to be the strongest again , close would be good enough .
rzage:smile

 

There is the one, the King Farouk one (well it's widely believed to be that one, evidence strongly suggests it is)... that after a big legal fight, the government decided to make legal, after getting part of the auction proceeds. Was sold at auction in 2002 to an anonmous buyer (still nobody knows who it is... was rumored to be Bill Gates at one time but that has been disproven) for about $7.6 million, the highest amount ever paid for a coin. It's the only 1933 double eagle the government currently considers legal to privately own. Logic dictates it has to be that one; if it wasn't, whoever had it wouldn't be publcily displaying it, lest the government seize it!

When ANA's World Series of Money came to Denver a while ago, they displayed the 10 1933 double eagles seized from the descendants of Israel Switt, I got to see those (Switt's heirs were trying to dispute the government's seizure... haven't heard anything about it for a while, but don't think they've been succesful, at least not yet).

So there's a sum total of 13 known to exist... the 10 Switt ones, currently held by the government... 2 in the Smithsonian... and the only one the government currently considers legal to privately own that was bought in the 2002 auction.

If any others exist, whoever has them is keeping quiet about it, lest the government seizes them. Unless they can ever come up with a legal argument that they can legally own them that will stick in court (the legality of owning them has never been court tested... the single legal one was made legal after an out of court settlement).

 

you were right the first time. appearence is not reality

 

That exhibit has been on display for several YEARS now and the 33 double eagle in the exhibit IS the Farouk coin that was confiscated from Fenton and then sold at auction in 2002.

Actually it's kind of a nice little scam being run by the owner of the coin. You buy a coin that expensive it tends to cost a pretty penny for secure storage and insurance. By loaning it for the exhibit, he still owns it but secure storage and insurance is now the Federal Reserves headache. The Bass Foundation worked th same kind of scam with that portion of Harry Bass's collection that they didn't sell. Harry's will required the Foundaion to protect the collection and make it availableto scholors, students, researchers etc. So the Foundation got the ANA to remodel their museum, build all new exhibits, provide storage and insurance, and then LOANED the collection to the museum. Now the ANA now has to put up with the headache of dealing with the researchers and the Foundation has fulfilled the terms of the will at no cost to themselves allwing them to keep all of the endowment for maintanence of the collection for themselves.

 

The owner is not reputed to be Bill Gates, though he can afford the coin, he is not a collector. Actually it is conjectured that the owner lives in the Bahamas, but of course is from somewhere else.

One thing I can tell you, I am NOT the owner of that coin. IMHO the coin is overgraded because of it's provenance. Knowing its purported provenance, I would avoid that coin at all costs. The coin was handled by one of the great mishandlers of coins himself, King Farouk.

 

Read "Illegal Tender" by David Tripp, a story about the coin that was the centre of the controversy a few years ago. There is ample anecdotal evidence that he played with coins, showed them to his various mistresses etc. Even the 1933 $20 that is legal to own and is conjectured to be the King Farouk coin, has handling damage to it which would support that someone like him if not him owned it.

 

I'm goin' from memory on all this, so keep me honest...

Help me out here... The recent sale of "the" 1933 Saint brought $7,590,020.

An odd number, eh ? $6,600,000 hammer price + 15% commission = $7,590,000.

Where did that extra $20 hanging off the end come from ?

My understanding is that was the US government's cut - a measly $20 to monetize the darn thing. Face value on a $7.6 million coin. Heck, melt value on the thing was over $800 !

Hardly "taking half on fees and taxes".

 

True. Just like this isn't reality : "it will be $1,000,000 to 1 Euro "

 

The King of Siam pieces are the 1804 proof set , the '33 Double Eagle was King Farouks .
rzage

 

They made enough , it just wasn't made publc in the out of court settlement . JMO
rzage:thumb: