Another Fake from Lanz

I just finished listening to "Alexander the Great and the Macedonian Empire" by Prof Harl and it motivated me to start photographing more of my Greek coins. When I imaged this Seleukos drachm purchased from Numismatik Lanz in 2015 (for $245 ) it didn't look right at all.


A quick look on Ebay brought up a die match from another fake seller.


Oh well, live and learn I suppose. In my defense, I believe the damaged Lanz version is a tad more convincing.....

 

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Is the authenticity warranted for life?

 

Did he say it was an imitation? I find it hard to believe anyone familiar with the type would think this is official.
The bottom one looks pressed to me.

 

In my experience, the Lanz guarantee is that he doesn't care whether a coin is authentic or not. Only recourse is PayPal and that's long past.

No, it was sold as authentic.

 

I am almost 100% sure Dr. Lanz will refund you the money and possibly apologize if you will show that die matches are offered as replicas from modern dies on ebay.
In this case there can not be two opinions about authenticity, in the other case about the other suspected fake there were to different opinions possible. In this case I am 100% on your side but it would be stupid not asking for refund because the coin is not authentic as pretended and so you have the right to get your money back.
You should mention in Email to Lanz that die matches were sold as replicas on ebay.

“ALL OF OUR COINS ARE HIGH QUALITY, HIGH STANDARD, HAND STRUCK NOVELTY INTERPRETATIONS OF MUSEUM ”

One is currently for sale as replica and this should make it much easier to prove that they are fake because this replica has not been altered and comes in bad company with other fakes from modern hand cut dies.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AR-TETROBO...856664?hash=item594bcda118:g:q6IAAOSwYgleqJB6

https://www.ebay.com/sch/coinlandia/m.html?item=383523856664&hash=item594bcda118:g:q6IAAOSwYgleqJB6&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

And if there will be a Lanz bashing I have to tell that we all make mistakes.

And Lanz is withdrawning and refunding if there will be real evidence that a coin is fake, that is my experience.

He has for example withdrawn this Istros fake after being notified, Ebay is not done by Lanz himself but by his staff as far as I know but it could be the case that he will help himself with ebay sale if necessary.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/LANZ-MOESIA...479270?hash=item46aa6558a6:g:LgcAAOSw6FpeX~Fj

NGC has slabbed one of these fakes, too so please no Lanz bushing because he offerd one of these Istros fakes, many weer offered and sold by reputable auciton houses or on ebay (on ebay mainly by fake sellers).

https://www.sixbid.com/en/heritage-auct ... icky=false

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=5216768

NGC Avers die match to IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 14 No.2 1989 Page 38 Fig 17

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=qb8o0C4yXjo=

And Reverse IBSCC Bulletin on Counterfeits BOCS Vol 14 No.2 1989 Page 37 Fig 13

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=axqEO0QPcRk=

You can buy die linked ones from same artist on ebay as replica

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Istros-Solid-Silver-Stater-Coin/323773587087?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

We (collectors, dealers and experts) all make mistakes but instead of showing the mistakes of other in public and making them bad and possibly even so humilitating them and heighten ourself we might better work together against fakes and forgers and fakes sellers because they are the real enemy.
And there is a difference of showing fakes like in forvm without mentioning the seller and showing them only for educational purpose that collectors can improve their skills in fake detection and so lowering the chance that they become fooled by fakes.

And there have been arguments in Forvm too when one expert of one auction house has condemned a coin offered by another auction house as fake because they are competitors and so it was about the not really clear intention why he did so. Did he do for educational purpose or to harm the reputaion of the other auciton house we do not know, if BUSINESS is involved it is a problem.

 

The good thing about Lanz is that he is participating in this board and provides amusement to all.

 

When one sells their business name or employs people that do not maintain the reputation built in the last century, the name becomes worthless or a joke. This is a common problem in business. I encourage those on this list to take care that when you retire from active control of whatever you do that you take great care to whom you entrust your business and name. What they do will be what determines your place in history.

 

In the first post the first coin and second one do not appear to be a die match to me.

 

Agree. ^^^^^

 

Agree

 

Unfortunately it is a die match.

 

This thread is from six months ago. Odd that someone chose to revive it after all this time with such a lengthy defense of the person in question. I'd be curious to hear from @Nemo as to whether the situation was ever resolved satisfactorily.

 

Yes, odd indeed.....

To answer that question of a possible resolution, I would quote William Caxton from his translation of Aesop's fables. "He that hath ben ones begyled by somme other ought to kepe hym wel from the same."

If someone is bored during self quarantine, you can read the long story here:https://www.cointalk.com/threads/numismatik-lanz-buyer-beware.339383/

The short story is after ignoring the warnings over the years of the fakes and tooled coins sold by Lanz, I finally got burned after spending 1,126 EUR on a fake electrum trite. When it was condemned by a well known dealer, and then NGC, I asked for a refund. After numerous emails back and forth Lanz VERY reluctantly agreed to a refund.

After the coin was delivered to Lanz, I repeated asked for my money back with no answer. Finally he informed me he had cleaned it and resold it (100% without permission) for €694, which was the amount he refunded me. His new listing included the description, "Harshly cleaned"

He even had the audacity to tell me I had paid to much in the first place and that's why I didn't get all my money back.

He is a crook, plain and simple. Trying to return another fake would be pointless.

 

While the translation may be a bit obtuse, the Aesop quote is good advice. After all he was Greek and should know a lot about Greek coins. Right? I was also stupid and was cheated by this seller twice. In my cases (both in 2016) I paid but they never sent anything. eBay refunded the second but I waited too long to claim the first. There are plenty of coins to be had from good sources.

 

Same here - @Nemo 's coin and the "die match" look similar in general, but I'm seeing considerable differences in detail. I'm still a beginner though, so could anyone knowledgeable elaborate on that?

PS. I've somehow missed the whole Lanz story a year ago, but I'll definitely stay away now even though a few times I'd bought from him, everything was ok (as far as I'm aware ).

 

The seeming differences between the two coins are due to the fake wear applied to the first coin.

 

(After reading the linked "Buyer Beware" thread)

Where I come from, punks like this would be getting a visit from Nunzio and Mario to rearrange some furniture..

and kneecaps.

 

.

 

Maybe that's why he needed to get that hip operation in the end

 

It is really strange how all here seem to prejudge Lanz although NO ONE HERE CAN KNOW HOW IT REALLY was.
You have only heard Nemos version and it is not clear if it really was like he says.

But it must be the way Nemo says because something must be TRUE if it is the way we want it to be or we expected it to be^^

Possibilities are :

1. It was exactly as Nemo says

2. It was not exactly as Nemo says and some differences due to misunderstandings or nor remembering correct or due to intentional or unintentional lying.

3. It was pretty much different as Nemo says

On court we hear all sides because, there the goal is to reconstruct the truth if not many innocent people would be in prison or dead due to death penalty if they would not get a fair chance to defend.

And to the other coin, we have again two possibilites

1. Authentic

2. Fake

And it is not always that easy to tell if authentic or not see for example the IAPN condemned Pergamon stater sold by Gemini in the past although the knew about the condemnation. The thread to this was sadly in ancients.info and is now not online anymore. And some experts thought authentic and others thought fake, it is not always so easy. Gemini 2009 lot 604

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=562269

http://forgerynetwork.com/asset.aspx?id=Knx6HMaNKYY=

Dr. Lanz is smarter and I doubt he would do so many grammar and orthographie errors like I do. And I assume he is to pride to extra write in bad English to hide his identity. The ones who really know Dr. Lanz know taht I am not him ^^