Hi Guys, It's me again, looking for some expert advice. I dont know what to make of this 1922 Lincoln Cent. Cant tell if it is a weak D or No D. I found this to go buy but I am not good enough to tell. Thanks for your help. Ron 1922 no D Lincoln Cent The 1922 no D Lincoln Cent is mentioned in most price guides without a full explanation of how to authenticate it. Some with no D showing are fakes, while others are relatively common die varieties that are only worth the same as the 1922D in grades below MS60. This means you have to look at other characteristics of the dies besides the lack of D, to figure out if a circulated 1922 cent is the valuable variety. In a Numismatist article published between 1977 and 1982, three die pair varieties are identified as being capable of producing genuine no D coins. All 3 are valuable in Mint State. However, since 1987, only die pair #2 has been recognized as valuable in circulated condition. The reason for this distinction is that in 1987, die pairs #1 and #3 were recognized as "filled dies", which can show a very weak D. It is not possible to reliably authenticate these as "no D" unless they are MS60 or higher, because only full mint lustre is sufficient to a detect a fake (removed D). The standard for MS specimens is that there must be no trace of the D, under 10X magnification. However, for die pair #2, the D never appears (even weakly), because it was ground off the die by abrasives. So die pair #2 can be authenticated even in circulated grades. In addition, die pair #2 is less common in all grades than die pairs #1 and #3. The 3 die pairs can be identified as follows: Die Pair #1: Second 2 in date is weaker than the first 2. First T in TRUST is smaller and more distinct than the other letters. WE is very mushy. Reverse is very weak, usually with no lines in the wheat ears. Die Pair #2: Second 2 in date is sharper than the first 2. All letters in TRUST are sharp. WE is only slightly mushy. L in LIBERTY butts up against the rim. Reverse is sharp. Die pair #3: Second 2 in date is weaker than first 2. TRUST is weak but sharper than IN GOD WE. L in LIBERTY butts up against the rim. Reverse is weak -- lower left part of O in ONE begins to spread into the field as the die deteriotates. The PCGS grading service does not distinguish between all 3 dies. The only designations they use for 1922 no D cents are "Weak Reverse" and "Strong Reverse". Only the "Strong Reverse" can be die pair #2; "Weak Reverse" corresponds to die pairs #1 and #3. This means that a PCGS 1922 no D Weak Reverse EF40 is only worth about $15. This is the same as a 1922D EF40, and about equal to the cost of having the coin slabbed by PCGS! The ANACS grading service apparently only certifies die pair #2 as "no D" in circulated grades (at least since 1987).
It is not die #2. It is not a no "D". For it to be a no "D", there should be nothing detectable under 10X magnification. There are 4 possible dies. You can find them described here; http://www.lincolncentresource.com/1922Ddievarieties.html As for what you have, I cannot tell for sure. If I had to guess, I would say that it is a 22-D that had some grease in the "D". I see no die crack for die #1, the "O" is too good for #3, and itis too well struck for die #4.
Thanks Rim's, Did you notice the E in the Cents? Did that just wear funny you think? Of course that's not the news I was hoping for, but at least I cant stop dreaming of that new set of golf clubs....hehe Ron
Hey RRR, Can you check to see if the reverse is rotated, even if slghtly and what direction is it rotated? I know the O in strong for it to be a #3 but the date looks right and so does the L in LIBERTY. Ribbit
I would like to know where the writers are finding these. On ebay completed auction searches show that PCGS 1922 weak reverses are 80-100+ in EF40. Even ANAC is over 70. VF are in the range of 50-70. A current auction still running has 16 bids and a high of $80 for a PCGS vf35. Hopefully these are just outdated values, but if anyone has a PCGS EF40 of these for $15.... or even double that, consider it sold. JIm
Jim, PCGS 1922 no D Weak Reverses in EF are going forbetween $750 and $3000 on Heritage. Now the weak "D"'s are in your price range.
That is what Jim says. If he had said "On ebay, completed auction searches show that PCGS 1922 weak "D"'s are...", he would been correct.
Look at what Jim quoted? It says 1922-D so Jim went the short version in discussing it. I dew that sometimes. Ribbit Ps: Here is the quote: This means that a PCGS 1922 no D Weak Reverse EF40 is only worth about $15. Here is what he said in the end: Hopefully these are just outdated values, but if anyone has a PCGS EF40 of these for $15.... or even double that, consider it sold. He was clearing referring to the D version and not the non-D version. :kewl:
Sorry for the confusion. I will also take the no D , weak reverse too I assumed that the quote I gave really was referring to the weak-D, but I didn't say so in the continuation, and my answer was concerning that. I certainly should have clarified it. Aren't all PCGS 1922 "no D visible" with weak reverses classified as weak D even if no D is visible? I thought that was how they did it, that only Rev #2 with no D visible was classified as "No D". I won a 1922- Real D cent in VF last night at the club auction for $12. Thanks Guys! Jim
Sure, go to the Club meeting and don't invite the Toad? :goof: You just wanted to minimize competition for that 22-D. I see how you are! Ribbit
Actually, the meeting was at a member's house for barbeque steak and pot luck. There was a Lincoln 31-S in nice fine with a minimum of $63, that I would have liked to bid on, but the host put a bid and I thought it bad manners to out bid him. I try not to tempt Karma. He paid for the steaks so I thought it only right. He also bid on and got my 1826 half and gave me a check ..... Love those meetings!!! Jim
Maybe that's why they have silent auctions on stuff in my local club? :whistle: I finally made it to my first one last night and I had a blast. I'm going to do a thread on it but I figured I'd wait till tomorrow when I shouldn't be bother much and can spend the proper amount of time on it, so you'll feel like . . . . You were there! Good old WK, god rest his soul! :thumb: Ribbit Ps: So you not only didn't want competition on that 22-D, you wanted to hog all the food too? I see how you are! :kewl:
Thanks RLM for that info. I haven't sent any 22-"plain" into any of them so I was just going from memory, and that is some what suspect also. Most of the rarer coins are sent over on "spec" from a club in San Diego with a reserve on them, that is the 22D and 31S came from. There is this cute little 10 yr old YN, who only bids on coins with animals on them. We search all over for them so she will have something to bid on. She knows she is the "darling" of the club so we tease her we are going to bid on them also, but of course we never do. Come to think of it, there were no amphibian legs on the barbie Sorry, I guess the thread is off the needle. My apology. Jim
I just sent one of mine in, but they did not like it for some reason. They said that it had been tooled for some reason. No one else has ever seen any problems with it but they did.
No Toads were damaged at the meeting RLM, do you mind saying what service it was? I often wonder if random marks are mistaken for tooling just to be safe. I feel you have enough experience and expertise to tell tooling marks if a mm was removed. Jim
