Legal? Owning Counterfiet Coins

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by yeoldstore, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. yeoldstore

    yeoldstore New Member

    Hello, I have a hand full of Morgan dollars purchased on ebay as copy/replica coins. However, they do not have a copy or replica stamp on them. These coins look very real and could pass as originals. Is it lawfully to own these?..Can these be legally sold as such..I know on ebay it is not allowed to sell these (copy/reps) unless the copy/replica stamp is in view. As I right this I think I am answering my own questions but would like to read your inputs. Thanks
     
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  3. HazardJoe

    HazardJoe New Member

    Your Under Arrest

    You should have not posted here. Your IP address has been compromised..run run








    j/k
     
  4. jazzcoins

    jazzcoins New Member

    I don't think there illegal unless you deside to use them for real currency. The replica coins are similar to novelty coins. just my thoughts

    Jazzcoins Joe
     
  5. HazardJoe

    HazardJoe New Member

  6. craig a

    craig a Coin Hoarder

    OOOOOOOOHHHHHH, youre in troublllllllllllllleeeeeee
     
  7. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    Well, you bought them unmarked; presumably you could resell them the same way. However, the watchdogs here (myself included) might notify ebay to get the auction pulled. You're in a grey area; you can legally own them but the Coin Protection Act requires them to be permanently marked as copies if you want to sell them. I suppose you could sell them privately with the understanding that they are counterfeit, but the buyer may eventually become a less ethical than you seller who tries to pass them off as genuine. I proposed in an earlier post that any unmarked counterfeit coins that one comes across should be engraved with the word copy, but I was pretty firmly shot down. It seems that the consensus is that they should be left as they are as "study pieces" and that marking them would destroy their value, as if they had any value beyond the intrinsic value of the metal they were made from. This does not address their future disposition to unknowing buyers. There was a post about a week ago with a link to a site discussing the history of counterfeits and their value to collectors in the past. There are thousands of Chinese counterfeits coming into the country; why add to the confusion? My personal advice - mark them and sell them a copies, unless you need them as hole fillers (still marked).
     
  8. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    Those are different Joe. They are coins that were actually minted by the US Mint but never authorized for circulation, thus, they are still legally the property of the US Mint.

    The ones being discussed here are replicas of coins that were authorized for circulation. The Hobby Protect Act comes into play here, so if he sells them without disclosing they are counterfeits, he's in full violation of a federal law but owning them, for numismatic purposes, is lawful - with or without COPY stamped on them. Biut to sell them, the law requires they have COPY on them if they were made after the enactment of the HBA.

    Ribbit :)
     
  9. jazzcoins

    jazzcoins New Member

    Wow interesting, I didn't know that i guess i learned something today I thought they were something like novelty coins.. Jazzcoins joe:smile
     
  10. Mojavedave

    Mojavedave Senior Member

    This is the ONLY coin I have seen so far that is ID as copy.
     

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  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    He can sell them all day long as long as he notes they are fakes. And it's perfectly legal.
     
  12. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    As long as they were made prior to Nov 29th, 1973. Anything made after that date requires they be stamped with the word COPY (within US).

    Ribbit :)

    Ps: As long as he isn't minting them, then it's hard to prove when they were made. ;)
     
  13. yeoldstore

    yeoldstore New Member

    I appreciate your respnces. These coins are from China and the only ones I have from seller that do have a stamp, all others I own do. I let the seller know about this problem and he-she-they sent me a metal stamp so to stamp the coins myself. I do not wish to be in the counterfiet bussiness and with %100 rating on ebay and local selling I can not chance these coins getting into the wrong hands or compromise my good ratings. So these coins will be stamped before they sell or placed in holders or left behind after Im gone. Got my 5 lb hammer ready Thanks
     
  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You're misunderstanding the law. The law says that you cannot make replicas without placing the COPY stamp on them. It doesn;t say you can't own or sell copies without the stamp on them.

    As I said, as long as the seller describes the coins as copies, it is perfectly legal to sell them.
     
  15. yeoldstore

    yeoldstore New Member

    Just read GDJMSP's post. "He can sell them all day long as long as he notes they are fakes. And it's perfectly legal" How is this possible if you mind me asking
     
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It's legal because you are not trying to defraud anyone if you describe the coins as fakes or copies.
     
  17. yeoldstore

    yeoldstore New Member

    Does this apply to ebay as well? I dont keep up as I should
     
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Dunno for sure, I think it does.
     
  19. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist


    Sec. 304.6 Marking requirements for imitation numismatic items. (a) An imitation numismatic item which is manufactured in the United States, or imported into the United States for introduction into or distribution in commerce, shall be plainly and permanently marked "COPY".

    He has said they came from China so that says the situation is already in violation of the HPA (importation clause) but if he didn't say that and "claims" they've been in a trunk in the attic for 50 years, then they grandfather out of the HPA and the coins are not in violation, unless it can be proved otherwise.

    The HPA was enacted on November 29th, 1973 so anything manufactured prior to that does not have to have the words COPY on it but anything that can be proved to have been manufactured after that date, will be in violation of the Act and the seller can be punished under the Act, regardless if they sell them as counterfeits or not.

    Ribbit :)
     
  20. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    Ebay has it's own rules. They require counterfeits to be marked.

    Ribbit :)
     
  21. HandsomeToad

    HandsomeToad Urinist

    http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-coins.html

    Ps: You will have to click on the tab labeled "Some Examples" towards the bottom of the page, to see the COPY rule:

    Replica Coins

    Any "reproduction," "replica," or "copy" coin (U.S. or foreign) must be plainly and permanently marked with the word COPY.

    The listing must include an image of the coin reflecting the appropriate markings. Images that are dark, out of focus, doctored or otherwise deemed misleading are not permitted. Stock photos are also not permitted.

    The listing must clearly state that it is a "reproduction," "replica" or "copy" in both the title and description.
     
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