ASE in auction----WOW! (NT or AT Poll)

It was sent in in the PCI holder. There was absolutely no evidence of tampering with the slab, and the slab stated 100% white, which is a good indicator that it was white when it was initially slabbed by PCI.

 

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Yeah but isn't there a thread on right now revived from a few months ago that says you can deliberately tone these right in the holder? I'm just sorry those links in that thread aren't good anymore, as I missed the thread when it went around, and I'd love to look at them, now.

 

Until I read the below thread and the (included in thread) one from collector's universe on ATing coins while within a PCGS holder, I would have thought this impossible also, as hard plastics should not normally have toning compounds. If it is the paper label that does this, it is worse than newsprint from china as far as toning. But if the paper did it, the paper label should have turned yellow IMO.

http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?p=437887#post437887

Jim

 

Wait you own that? :thumb:

 

Sorry Eddie, typing as you posted. I followed the whole thread on C-U , close to 1000 postings, What a p**sing contest.

Jim

 

Lololol that is one of my dads favorite phrases. :mouth:

 

Jim, I just read the first post in that CU thread, having linked to it from the thread I was reading, here, that was revived. All I read was some guy expressing contrition for having subjected the coin (his coin) in the holder to some kind of environmental toning, and then, I think, selling it at a premium (I might be wrong, there...again, I think he said that). Anyway, it was surprising as heck to learn you could do that, and that easily.

 

The audacity was that he then put the coins up on his registry set. Only got caught when someone noticed ( I guess ebay) an old listing of the same PCGS coin where it was "white" and a recent ( several months different) photo of it "well toned". He did "apologized" and offered to buy back any such coins people bought from him, but it seems split as to forgive him or burn him. Since the holders aren't airtight, one theory was pressurized gas being forced in., but it did affect the way I look at things.

Many accusations were leveled at big time dealers ( un-named) who supported and profited from his, and other's doctoring of coins to reap higher prices for toned coins.

At least that is my reflection on the posts.

Jim

 

Jim...
If the coin in question was AT then a simple analysis of the ionic compounds used in the AT will be present on the coins surface. The ionic attraction to Ag by other gas particles (electrons and protons) should be relavant by a simple sample and run through a Mass Spec.

RickieB

 

I love toned coins, but I would not buy this particular one.

 

Do you know of cases of that being done in the real world?

First, I doubt you'd find spare protons That being said, your saying that a mass spec can identify volumetric ionized particle on the surface of the coin? Without destroying the coin you can do this? Not with any Mass spec I know of, but I haven't used one in a decade. Either way, you would need a representative sample from the coin. Good luck with that.

Ruben

 

ah but PCGS has once changed their holder for the very thing

 

i suggest rickie buy it and then tell u the truth and if its AT he gets his money back from Heritage/ PCGS

 

No, I simply submitted it for grading when evaluating the individuals collection.

As far as toning coins in slabs deliberately, it can be done, however in order to do it you would have to drill a hole in the slab to make it non airtight, and then expose it to hydrogen sulfide gas, probably via a mixture of an acid, and sodium sulfide, or cupric sulfide. It would also produce a much uglier appearance, and if produced that way would be called at by PCGS IMO. Also, production of Hydrogen sulfide gas is extremely dangerous, and would produce toning that would more than likely only fool amateurs, and not professional graders.

 

AT done correctly cant be caught by anyone at any TPG thats all i am going to say

 

Heres another ASE for your consideration:

 

oops pic:

 

Jack, that looks like the mud puddle next to my van after a heavy rain

 

a 1998 AME toned but its rare occurrence