Ebay seller relists known counterfeit coin

I'm not sure about the authenticity, but the coin looks whizzed or otherwise fussed with to me, from looking at the very uneven coloration. buyer beware.

 

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I'm very nervous of raw key date coins on Ebay now. This was the second in a row (first was an AU 1909-S IHC). Makes you wonder they weren't certified in the first place, since you get more money from the auction. Either the coin is a counterfeit, have problems that would cause them to be bodybagged or the seller wanted to sell you a coin for a higher grade than the TPG would give it.

 

that is a blanket form letter they send for nearly all reports.

 

Someone needs to shut this seller down. We don't need people like this.

 

Yes of course it is. The point is if bad listings aren't reported fast good luck seeing them removed. I Don't visit there much but I believe the CFe is doing a poll on whether they as a group should even continue reporting these kind of listings.

 

CFe has gotten itself in trouble on more than one occasion... the concept is good, but sometimes their tactics are a little viscous. Ninety percent of the posts are by one percent of the members, and by making the group private, perspective buyers can no longer browse the discussions to make their own determination about the extent of fakes and forgergies on eBay. I think CCW has been overwhelmed by the volume of reports, and unless there's an obvious violation in a seller's listing, most auctiions remain until completion. I sometimes worry about "watchdog" groups looking out for my welfare...

 

In the middle of all this, has anyone noticed that the original 1928- was removed by the seller?

 

rlm
posting #8

"After receiving an email notifying them that there was bad press going around about the coin in question they responded that they are confident that there is nothing wrong with the coin...then ended the auction early due to incorrect listing

Keep an eye out, it's bound to come back again later"

Richard

 

More likely is that ebay's procedures went as advertised and they (ebay) removed the listing.

Reporting does work.

 

I think when eBay removes a listing, the auction page doesn't appear, just an "invalid item" header. I believe the seller has been instilled with some doubt about the authenticity of this coin... therefore he ended the listing. I doubt that eBay would end his listing based on a picture or opinions. I still don't understand why he doesn't have the coin certified. He lists his backgroud:
I am a PCGS and NGC certified dealer, a member of the ANA and a member of the North Florida Better Business Bureau with a 100% rating. I am, I believe, a "top-notch" dealer and had several other "top-notch" dealers look at it as well. If you want the coin and you have it certified and it comes back not authentic I will refund your purchase price.
Maybe I'm too trusting... I wouldn't buy the coin, but I don't believe he is deliberately trying to scam anyone. Wouldn't he have too much to lose?

 

Sorry! I missed the earlier post.

And, yes, when eBay pulls the auction, you find nothing when you go to or search for the listing. It will say that the item cannot be found.

 

My question is this and I'll get to it eventually: I recently noted that Ebay had 120,000 coin listings. There are bound to be a few thieves in a group that large. I have sold uncertified key dates on Ebay, but I back them up. Also, I insist on Paypal. So....why are they allowing an entire continent, namely, Asia to keep selling counterfeits on Ebay. What kind of security do they have in place to cut down the counterfeits coming out of there? Before I would buy a coin from China, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. I would take the same amount of money and play one hand of Blackjack. My odds would be much better even at the Indian Casinos and their eight deck shoes. I've seen too many magnetic Trade Dollars to ever buy a coin from out of the United States. With the one exception being that the only foreign coins I buy are from the Cayman Islands, which I'm very familiar with and feel safe on the island any time day or night, so I will buy coins from there.
Vegas Vic

 

It sound like what you're suggesting is that no Asian country be allowed to participate in ebay (coin) sales. This probably wouldn't work in the long run as the sellers could just drop-ship from another location, like San Fransisco or Seattle.

I'm more surprised that the US Mint hasn't gotten in on the policing action since copying coinage is illegal - unless the product is prominently marked as a Copy or Reproduction.

If you ran ebay, how would you police the action?

 

If I ran Ebay, I guess I would hold the sellers to a higher standard from those countries. Using an escrow service, whether internal to Ebay or an external company who would verify the authenticity of the coins before handing over payment. I realize this would put the foreign sellers at a disadvantage as the escrow service would not be free by any means. However, that is something they would have to work through while improving their reputation. Perhaps once the counterfeit rate dropped significantly it could turn into an occasional spot check of merchandise. Some checks would be random computer generated and others would be automatic depending on the seller's reputation. It wouldn't fix it overnight or completely, but they (Ebay) need to concentrate the majority of their efforts where the majority of the problems lie. Right now they are wasting their efforts domestically while the vast majority of their problems lie overseas. Not that the domestic counterfeiters should be ignored by any means, but they need to expand foreigners, perhaps enlisting the help of Customs, the Secret Service and the Post Office. By the way counterfeiting is under the jurisdiction of the Secret Service, not the mint. The mint's job ends when the coins are delivered to the Federal Reserve Banks. I admit I'm far from having all the answers but they have a lot of work to do and in my opinion are doing nothing to solve it.
Vegas Vic

 

I've often wondered this myself. Why not the Secret Service or the Bureau of ATF for that matter? I've concluded that its because the number of people affected- numismitists- is so relatively small that they think it isn't worth their time. Now, if it concerned circulating currency, there'd be a whole lot more attention paid to it.

There was a time when I felt very comfortable purchasing raw coins on eBay. That time passed a couple of years ago. Now I'm even suspicious of many slabbed coins.

 

Because some people can actually tell if the coin is real or counterfeit on their own without having to have some unknown person passjudgement on it first. And for those who can separate the wheat from the chaff there is a financial advantage. The huge majority of the collecting population that is afraid to buy a coin without someone holding their hand have been removed from the competition allowing the knowledgeable person to potentially get the genuine piece at a bargin price.

 

Wait, aren't most US Coinage already Legal Tender by Default?

 

How do you file a fraudulent listing .
rzage

 

you can use the 'report this item' link at the bottom, there is a 'you suspect a listing is fraudulent, you didn't bid' on the menu. You can also report to the CCW, which supposedly uses some people with numismatic expertise to judge if the item is fake or not. Sometimes they are on the ball, sometimes they simply seem to be... not there. I suspect this is a very underfunded aspect of eBay window dressing to make it look as if they are actually doing something proactive. Use this link to the CCW: http://www.ebay.com/ccw

I have spoken to people who have actually taken fakes to the Secret Service, and they basically are not interested in fake vintage/antique coins. They won't pursue those cases.

While there are a handful of honest sellers from China and SE Asia in eBay numismatics, they are dwarfed by the number of scammers and forgers. We've seen the quality of the fakes getting better and better, now they can fake PCGS and NCS slabs pretty well, when they get cracking with EMD forgery equipment they will manufacture fakes that will require a microscope and skill to detect. My personal opinion is that numimatic sales from China should be ended right now. BTW, my p.m. is turned back on, and if anyone is interested in the Coin Forgery eBay group, please drop me a line.

 

From ebay's home page click on "coins and paper money" Then over on the right side You will see the link for reporting,