Augustus or Tiberius, Laodicea ad Lycus

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by cmezner, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Staying home is giving me all the time to try to correct my attributions that I am not sure about.:confused:

    This one could be Augustus or Tiberius. BMC assigns this type to Augustus, while RPC I assigns it to Tiberius.

    According to acsearch it is Tiberius:
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4739693

    Wildwinds has a question mark Tiberius (?)and says "Bare head right":
    http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/tiberius/RPC_2911.1.txt

    Is there more recent information about this type? :shy:

    Æ18, Phrygia, Laodicea ad Lycus 14 - 37 AD, Dioskourides magistrate
    18 x 19 mm, 6.660 g
    Ref.: RPC I 2906-2911; SNG Cop 547-549; BMC Phrygia p. 301, 141 -143 (as Augustus)

    Ob.: ΣΕΒΑΣΤΟΣ Bare head right
    Rev.: ΛΑΟΔΙΚЄΩΝ - ΔIOΣKOVPIΔHS TO ΔEVTEPON, Zeus Laodikeios standing l. with eagle and staff, KOP monogram outer right

    upload_2020-3-20_21-18-39.png upload_2020-3-20_21-18-50.png
     
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  3. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    I would expect the OBV legend to read as TIBEPIOΣ if it were Tiberius. ΣΕΒΑΣΤΟΣ logically leads me to believe it to be Augustus.

    DISCLAIMER: I'm not an expert

    Just now checking CNG's site, a few of these have been sold attributed as Augustus. Check there for more reference.
     
    cmezner likes this.
  4. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Thanks Herodotus.

    I checked CNG's site searching for:
    Phrygia Laodicea ad Lycus Augustus
    Phrygia Laodicea ad Lycus Tiberius
    Phrygia Laodicea ad Lycus Zeus
    Phrygia Augustus
    Phrygia Tiberius

    No hits for any of these. What search keywords did you use for your search?
     
  5. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Sorry, I wasn't looking at sold items.

    Now I found four, and all four are from magistrate Zeuxis, RPC I 2894; SNG Copenhagen 555.

    The one I have is magistrate Dioskourides (ΔIOΣKOVPIΔHS) - different RPC number:confused:

    Wildwinds says about this magistrate (same as mine):

    RPC's attribution of this issue to Tiberius is based on the "mature portrait", the "second issue" of this and another magistrate, and the use of "SEBASTOS". No city in southern Phrygia issues "SEBASTOS" coins with "TIBERIUS" - it is always "either-or". Also, unless the "SEBASTOS" coinage of southern Phrygia is attributed to Tiberius, a huge gap in coinage would need to be explained some other way. Together, these arguments make a reasonable case.

    This is the one at Wildwinds, Tiberius(?):

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    An RPC-SEARCH brings up these(also not the same magistrate as yours).

    https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/search/...ight_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&format=

    The nose on your coin(and Wildwinds) does appear more like Tiberius' than it does Augustus.

    However, the portrait is the only identifier suggesting Tiberius. Using deduction, one would think to attempt to disqualify Tiberius, rather than to attempt to qualify Augustus - considering that the type has generally been associated with the latter under other magistrates.

    As is well understood, provincial coinage can be somewhat abstract in its portraiture.

    My gut is leaning towards Augustus, and that the suggested attribution of Tiberius(?) has more to do with one's interpretation of the portrait rather than other identifiers suggesting Augustus.

    This is of course my very amateur opinion. I'm sure others here can chime in.

    What's your gut feeling?
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  7. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    At first I had attributed as Augustus - well, I do see Augustus everywhere, my favorite:cool:

    After I read the attribution at Wildwinds, I set a question mark on my attribution and since their description is from 2002, I thought maybe there was some new information about this issue.

    Being also an amateur, I will keep waiting for future new information and leave the attribution as Augustus(?).

    Thank you so much for your answers :happy:

    Stay home and be safe
     
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