1898 Morgan, MS or cleaned?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Seattlite86, Mar 3, 2020.

?

Is this Morgan a problem coin?

  1. Yes, cleaned

    10 vote(s)
    90.9%

  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    9.1%
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  1. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I disagree with Doug on a number of things, but not in this instance. Cleaning includes dipping and chemical cleaning. Damaged comes from improper and harsh cleaning.
     
    Seattlite86, Mar 4, 2020
    #21 + Quote Reply
    Paul M. likes this.
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  3. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    You are perfectly entitled to use words differently from the hobby at large. Just don't expect people to know what you're talking about if you do.
     
    Paul M., Mar 4, 2020
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Seattlite86, Mar 5, 2020
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Paul M., Mar 5, 2020
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    But all that reference dipping explain that it removes layers from a coin, which is also listed under dipping. Dipping a coin is cleaning a coin. We all know this to be true (correct me if I'm wrong). Not sure why you're arguing the point. PCGS very clearly shows it.

    And wikipedia is a wealth of knowledge. I'm not sure why people try so hard to discount it, but every info page it has comes with links to demonstrate where the info came from. Saying the information is no good because it's from wikipedia is rather narrow.
     
    Seattlite86, Mar 5, 2020
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I agree 100% that dipping a coin is and always has been acceptable, and just because a coin has been dipped that does not mean that it has been damaged. And tens of millions of coins have been dipped and cleanly graded.

    However, you and I both know that if a coin is over-dipped - it most definitely is considered as having been harshly cleaned and damaged, and it will not be cleanly graded.

    My point of course is that the difference between cleaned (no harm) and harshly cleaned (harmed) is just like the difference between dipped (no harm) and over-dipped (harmed).

    And just because a lot, even if it's the vast majority, of people use the term "cleaned" when what they really mean is "harshly cleaned" - that does not mean they using the term correctly. It simply means a whole lot of people, even the vast majority, are using the term incorrectly.

    Cleaned has become the slang form, a contraction, of harshly cleaned - that's what happened. But it doesn't make it right.
     
    GDJMSP, Mar 5, 2020
    #26 + Quote Reply
    Seattlite86 and Paul M. like this.
  8. Derek2200

    Derek2200 Well-Known Member

    Looks dipped.
     
    Derek2200, Mar 5, 2020
    #27 + Quote Reply
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  9. capthank

    capthank Well-Known Member

    I thought dipping was acceptable and the coin remains MS
     
    capthank, Mar 5, 2020
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    It all depends on the coin, the dip, and the outcome. Very few people know how to properly dip a coin without totally ruining it.
     
    Seattlite86, Mar 6, 2020
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Absolutely correct. But only if and when the dipping is done correctly AND if and when the coin was not already damaged before it was dipped !

    There's 2 things involved when it comes to using a commercial coin dip. Coin dip contains acid and when it is used properly and correctly no harm is done to the coin. But if it is used incorrectly or improperly coin dip can absolutely ruin a coin and do irreparable damage to the coin.

    The second thing is that when you dip a coin, by removing the unsightly toning or whatever on the coin, you may reveal damage that was previously done to the coin, but was being hidden from view by the toning. Thus even if you dip it correctly, the coin is still damaged because it was already there before you dipped the coin - you just couldn't see it.
     
    GDJMSP, Mar 6, 2020
    #30 + Quote Reply
    Seattlite86 and longshot like this.
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