Fake $2.50 Indians??

I happened to be looking at some of my gold coins when these 2 jumped out at me because the color seemed "different".With a 16X loupe I could see that there are marks on both coins that are identical. I'm thinking some kind of transfer. I don't think that 2 coins can have the same "old" scratches. Let me know if I'm wrong and these are good, but after looking real close at them I think they're fake....John

 

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I agree that those marks look identical. If they are incuse (depressed) into the metal that could indicate transfers from a common host.

 

They look like fakes to me. The tool mark in the last photo pretty much cinches it as a fake. (Tool marks are scratches in the die and appear as raised marks on the coin.) Tool marks are one of the first things I look for on gold coins.

 

to me, that mark looks incuse, which could just be an optical illusion. dready, which is it- raised or sunken?

 

well that's sort of a good thing, quarter eagles aren't THAT rare, and often the gold quality is higher in the fakes. how's that for optimism?? = )

 

Where is Budgood ? He would most likely know.

 

Here I am, well if it were just the 1 coin I wouldnt have too much concern .... But it is quite a rare find to have 2 of the same coins with the same planchet marks. I really would have to say these possibly look like transfers die counterfeits. AmaZing that you would have 2 coins from the same transfered die. But if the color caught your eye & all the attributes are the same I'd say your assumption is correct. Sorry for your loss but hopfully the knowledged from this will balance it out. From the overall detail if they are gold you shouldn't be out much if you purchase correctly. You could still melt them . Let us know if you send them off & discover differently.But I'm saying counterfiet all the way- good eye on ya.

 

Thanks Everyone, You've all pretty much confirmed my suspicion. To clarify, ALL the marks are incuse or depressed into the metal, As for the color, I never would have noticed the difference had I not been looking at these while having coffee out on the patio this morning. Out in the morning sun they were a slightly different shade of gold than the others. Almost like a pinkish tint to them.I can't remember exactly what I paid for them, (4-5 years ago), but they weren't a mjaor buy and like you said Budgood, I can always melt them. Thanks again everyone...... John

 

In that case, scratch what I said.

I have PMed you.

 

That is the key point. When they discuss counterfeit and talk about "repeated depressions" some people think they mean a coin with many depressions on it. Actually they mean multiple coins each with the exact same depressions on them.

there are only two ways for a coin to have a depression on it and that is for tere to be some kind of a hit or damage to the coin, or for there to be a raised area on the die. And that would be most unusual. But if they are from hits or contacts you are NOT going to get multiple coins that all show the same marks like these do. that happens when contact marks from one coin are tranferred to the counterfeit die made from it. Then all of the coins created from those dies will show the same depressions. That definitely seems to be the case here.

Just remember, genuine coins can also show tool marks too.

 

Can you take a couple closeup shots of the reeded edges? That can also be a dead give away on these.

I believe these are fake also but I'd be curious to see how well they got the reeded edge to come out and see if there's vertical scratches in between the raised reeds from them being pushed out of the holder. I'm guessing these don't but I'd like to see what they look like anyway. Are the raised portions of the edge exactly the same widths all the way around them?

 

These are the best I could get with my camera. Under a 16X loupe some of the reeds appear to be different sizes..... John

 

You guys have amazing eyes if you can tell if this is fake or not.

 

Irregular sized reeds on the edge is usually a dead give away. On the bottom pic, it looks like a wide one just from the right of center, compared to the others.

Also, in-between the raised portions, in the valleys, you should see fine, vertical scratch marks where the coin was removed from the press at the mint. From my understanding, they all should have these. I don't see them on this one. Granted, it may be a little hard to tell from the pic, but they are decent pics and should be easily visible.

Edit: Just thought I'd add.... There is a seller on ebay that sells these loose now and then who is also a photographer and takes many pictures of them. His last pic is always a close up of the reeded edge and you can see the vertical scratch marks. I doubt these can be duplicated. I tried finding one of his auctions but he doesn't appear to have any out there right now.

Much of what you have circled does appear to be spikes from tool marks. The edge on these aren't quite as obvious (size-wise) as many I've seen in my counterfeit book, FWIW.

 

Sure the vertical scratch marks can be duplicated. You strike your fakes in a reeded collar and when you force the coin up out of the collar there you are vertical scratch marks created the same way they are created on the genuine coins.

 

So are the weights correct for the supposed gold content?

 

$ 2.50 Fake Gold

OR --------- You could sell them to me for $100.00 Each.