If not casting bubbles, then what?

This is my first online purchase, a double victoriatus from the Thessalian League (150-100 BC), but it came from a reputable European dealer with a brick and mortar shop. The coin feels legit in hand, good shape and it even appears to have flow lines. However I wonder what those 'burst bubbles' on the surface of the coin are:



They appear very tiny considering the diameter of the coin is around 2cm. They look like someone poked the coin with a needle. Is it some form of corrosion or something?

 

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Is it a dealer in Germany ?

I ask you that as it seems that your coin was tooled and cleaned and one Ge4man dealer well known have a online EBay and auction too and have some bad habits to fool collector with heavy tooled cleaned such coins.

 

It is not a German dealer, but a Dutch one. I got the coin through ma-shops, not an auction. The dealer has very good reviews and the catalogue that came with the coins looks very professional, not to mention that he sells some very high-end coins on his shop. My concern was those burst bubbles, but you raised a different issue here. What makes you think the coin was cleaned and tooled? I understand tooling is enhancing the details of a dull coin, but honestly i couldn't see any sign of that. The coin in hand looks properly struck. On the other hand, I am not an experienced collector, so any advice is appreciated.

 

I saw 2 tooled coins from a German dealer done with needles and having this type of problem, not common on tooled and the mouth seems strange.

But I think that there are far more experts members here that will reply more accurate. I don’t have any reputable Dutch dealer in my black list that I got from a friend exper5 so don’t worry.

 

More and more, I tend to believe that tooling an ancient coin is an honest craft. The coin will always be considered as genuine. Enhancing, beautifying and preserving an ancient coin should not be considered as a sin. Hope I'm not mistaken.

 

honest when in the description state that that it is tooled , cleaned... the price is lower for such a coins and you don’t fool people.

The German seller that is a specialist of that is not anymore member of dealers numismatic associations because of that and have legal troubles too. He sell heavily tooled coins at high prices without describing it particularly on EBay. All serious dealers here the story.

A slightly tooled coin that you buy at a fair discount and know about it is collectible of course it isn’t a fake.

Now the question is about it is needles or casting bubbles ? This coin is it a cast one so a fake ? Personally I can’t answer it.

 

Coin is genuine. Coin is not tooled. The round marks are just damage of some sort that could have 100 different explanations. I generally refer to them as punch marks.

Barry Murphy

 

Your coin looks legitimate to me, but I'm not an expert. What the small holes are I couldn't guess. I have one coin I purchased from Harlan J. Burke's that is full of holes, but I am 100% certain of it's authenticity.

 

Today I was at Elsen shop and I saw one with the same surface than you , a Roman one. It was graded fine to VF because of the surface and it was Genuine for sure but like you @Bing I would like to know what is it and the word in English.

 

If Barry says it is good you can stop worrying.

@7Calbrey tooling is not normal, not acceptable, and should not be tolerated by collectors. I think the vast majority of ancient collectors will agree.

John

 

Presumably he is using the term loosely. There is nothing "honest" about tooling, since one deliberately alters the coin's devices to make the coin more valuable--it is by definition deceitful and should not be confused with cleaning a coin (however harsh the cleaning may be).

 

Happy to know that my coin seems legit. I knew I could count on all of you!

 

Personally I refuse to buy tooled coins even slightly tooled. Some honest resale such coins mentioning it is. Somme budget collector surely collect them as it is usually budget. Now do they understand what that it is a alteration of the coin is an other question

 

Metal-eating Termites?

 

Hey, @Only a Poor Old Man welcome to CT. As you will find, there will be several different opinions here, some worth more than others (mine isn't too good for coins, but not bad for chemistry). Bubbles or imperfections such as on your coin may be from casting or from reaction to environmental factors. If the bubbles are from casting, there would probably be more of them. It's a nice coin. One further thing is to distinguish between "smoothing" and "tooling". Perhaps a fine distinction, but many ancient coins suffer from impaired fields and have been "improved" by shaving away the imperfections in the background. When this "improvement" escalates to the point of re-engraving features of the coin this is "tooling". Neither practice is good, but I would be willing to accept smoothing but not tooling.

 

Common sense

Any coin that has lain around in the ground for 2,000 years is going to come out dirty and discolored. Cleaning is to be expected on ancient coins and, unlike modern coins, is not considered a sin and does not lower a coin's value.

Tooling, however, is different and needs to be disclosed by the owner/seller. To do otherwise is unethical and dishonest.

 

I read a bit about bronze disease today. It comes from chlorine in the ground that reacts with air, water and copper, and as we all know it can ruin a coin.
I think it is the responsibility of every collector to contribute to the preservation of these historical «documents» that we have in our custody. That means that we should do our best to remove dirt and encrustations from our coins, without altering the original surfaces, before storing them in a dry and preferably air tight environment. I always have a jar full of coins and distilled water/olive oil, and a coin box where the candidates dry up before getting a (sometimes not so) gentle brush. Preservation is one of the best parts of collecting, in my opinion.

My two quadrans.

 

Leaving coins in olive oil for too long can damage them. A week is fine. A month is not. Use caution and check them regularly. If you notice the oil turning blue, remove them immediately.

 

That's pretty much the routine, yes. But thank you anyway

 

Here's a denarius of Faustina I that has weird "bubbles" on the surface. It "feels" otherwise genuine and it does not appear to be a fourree. Weight is around 3 grams. I don't know what causes such a surface - maybe it is a cast fake?