1959 D bu Lincon die variety

Here I have a 1959D mintmark variety that I cannot quite pin down as to classification. *Note the hook at the top of the mm.

So far I have come up with 1959D-1MM-008 D/D North, but the EDS markers are not the same, in as much as the reverse markers of the die gouge on the E of Cent and the die chips on the 12th column are not on this reverse. However on the obverse, the hook at the top of the mm is most like this variety.

Secondly is the 1959-1MM-014 D/D North. My coin shares the die break on the bottom of the sleeve but to a much lesser degree, and there are no die breaks on the 12th column on my coin.

I haven't found this coin at any other site... and, yes, I might have missed some in my lengthy search.
So, can you help me out and see if you recognize this variety or direct me to a site where the coin is listed.
Thanks,
jeankay

 

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Us help you?

Jean, you are fast becomming the CT resident expert on Lincoln varietys Eye's, patience, determination and time....you have them all:kewl:

 

Looking both at coppercoins and in The RPM Book by Wiles, your guess of RPM#14 seems more likely. I base this primarily on the position of the D, which is further to the right under the 5 than it is in RPM#8 and thus reflects more what I see in your photo. I've found that looking for such indicators as die chips and breaks in the 12th column is often not very helpful.

Recall that often the reverse dies are switched out, meaning that any set reverse indicators can change during the life of the obverse die. With RPM#14 this does not happen, but it does with RPM#8.

 

I agree primarily due to the close proximity and positioning of the Primary "D" to the "9" and "5" in the Date and the upper portion of the Secondary "D" setting directly West and centered with the tail of the "5" in the Date!


Frank

 

Thank you, but aw-gee AJ, you are just so sweet.

I know I will never be the expert the long timers are, but you can bet your bottom dollar I am going to learn how to spot and attribute these Lincolns to the best of my limited ability. What I cannot do is automatically recall all the classifications I have found purely from memory ... nope, I still gotta go back and check the coins on the various sites where I found the pictures, or here with the delightful experts on CT and other forum sites, or on the net or the few books I am fortunate to have in my small library.
Hugs AJ.
jeankay

 

Acanthite...
Now that makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes I forget about the dies being so vulnerable to change-out.
This is definitely a point I need to remember when trying to classify these varieties with the information available in all the references I have at my disposal.
I have been maybe two years in the coin collecting hobby and still have a great deal to learn about Lincolns and all the others... so little time and so many coins... }
jeankay

 

Hi Frank,
Thank you... I am going to recheck the two and study them again... and likely will decide exactly what you are telling me. ;o}
I must say that having you and others (too many to list right now) helping us uneducated coin collectors has made this hobby more fun than I would have ever hoped. Your advice is very much appreciated and adds to my knowledge many times over.
jeankay

 

Howdy Frank, Acanthite, AJ, Huntsman,

Okay, because of your help I have made a decision this cent is a
1959D-1MM-014 D/D North, maybe MDS. It is also listed as RPM#14 and WRPM-033.
The diagnostics I used were the position of the coin to the 5, the die marker next (nearly touching) the second 9, and the die crack which begins about 7 o'clock from the rim, then north and west across about half of the sleeve.
The die marker west of the second 9 does not show good on this darker version of the photograph. It was a choice of seeing the die marker or the hook on the mm.
In this case, the reverse told us nothing helpful concerning markers.
Also, the die crack on the sleeve is much less pronounced than the photograph on coppercoins.com. This likely means my coin is either an EDS or LDS as compared to the MDS of the photograph. Unfortunately I forgot to include a thumbnail of the die crack because, well, I just forgot.

A word to the timid... (me too!)... don't be afraid to ask questions, post pictures, and be willing to accept opinions about your 'find'. At some point the help you receive will help you will to zero in on the right answer for the question you have asked.

jeankay

 

jeankay…have you ruled out all of the listed obverse markers for the RPM-008 and RPM-014? For the 008, light die crack N-S on shoulder, two die gouge dots on shoulder, or light die crack N-S in hair. For the 014, light or medium die crack over VDB. If so you might have an RPM-019 D/D north, or RPM-022 D/D north, hard to tell since there are no markers listed. Maybe you should post your RPM photos to the CONECA forum and with any luck maybe James Wiles will respond. Sometimes it is hard to attribute these RPM's with out having them in hand...I would lean towards yours being a later die state of the RPM-008.

Larry Nienaber

 

1959 D Lincoln

Okay everyone, I am limping back onto the playing field and am going to try to redeem my reputation. ;o}

Trying to photograph this coin has been the biggest challenge I have endured with my poor little camera...
Here are three more views of the markers. The leftmost pic shows the tail going north then northeast, and shows a possible extension into the D.
The middle photo shows the only die gouge I could verify on the obverse.
There are many after mint scratches, some powerful scrapes and dings, but I could not find any other die cracks than the two shown on the third photo.
The die crack comes from the rim almost exactly where the die gouge is, and continues in a northwest for a short distance.. it is very light so is quite difficult to photograph with brighter lighting. There is a second die crack I just discovered that is almost exactly at the six o'clock position where the jacket meets the empty space.

 

I would have to agree with AJ on this. I have a lot of resoures when it come to Lincoln but I have move you to the top of my list:hail:

 

Thanks andy,
I doubt if there will be a day where I can see a coin and be able to classify it without assistance from the books in my library, and the internet sites that have examples, and all you delightful folks on CT and others.
Right now I am right back to the first 1959D-1MM-014 D/D North, although that could change if more information is provided.
Thanks again,
jeankay

 

There not many people out there that can. It is not only ones knowledge that make them an expert, it is also their ability to obtain and use new information that make them one. Keep it up!

 

Well I've been trying to find the meaning for several abbrieviations such as EDS, MDS, LDS, VDB, EMDS and no doubt more to come. Anyone know of a site which holds the answers?

 

I don't know of a website, but EDS means Early Die State, MDS is Middle Die State and LDS is Late Die State. The rest I don't know.

 

Thank you, that's a start.

 

Is it possible the vdb you are asking about is Victor David Brenner the Lincoln cent designer?
Don't EMDS travel around in ambulances?

(Sorry, couldn't come up with the real answer.)

jeankay

 

That would be Early Die State, Late Die State etc etc, but the EMDS I am unaware of

 

EMDS = early-medium die state. Sort of like VG10.

 

Actually the VDB is what jeankay said but some of the others are mentioned on the Coneca Variety Listings web site.