Guess the grade--NGC 1881-S Morgan Dollar

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:bow:

 

Now that is a little presumptuous. You got a look at a two photos, and 4 professional graders got to view the coin in hand. I think I am going to agree with NGC since I have also seen the coin in hand. It is stunning, extremely lustrous, and by far the cleanest Morgan I own. Could it be in an MS67 holder with a green sticker, sure. Is it a 66 or below, not a chance.

 

Nvrmnd

 

The chance that four professional graders overgraded a coin by 2 grades and that your grade is right on after viewing 2 photographs is well----Did anyone hit the powerball this week?

It is much more likely that this coin is a solid MS67 residing in an MS68 holder. I have also seen several MS68's in hand and many in photos. And while it is not this (see below), it does not look out of place in the MS68 holder.

 

i agree but i would end my sentence with blew it :whistle:

 

That would have been funny

 

No, they didn't "overgrade" it, that's wrong. Five years ago, they'd have graded this 66--no further. Today, just to survive, they're playing the "market grading" game, just like everybody else (...just like the ANA, itself, fer gosh sakes!). And that means they grade a coin looking like this upward. That's why this coin is in a NGC 68-holder. Just sayin' what I think, now, Lehigh...

 

You can't market grade a Morgan from MS66 to MS68 with this toning. Personally, I don't think this toning is even worthy of a star much less a bump up in grade. That reason just isn't going to do it. I really don't know what coin you guys are looking at. There is not a single mark visible to the naked eye in the focal areas of this coin. There are some light luster grazes, but no bag marks. The luster can't be fully appreciated with a photo, but it is outstanding and only serves to compliment the nice toning and create fantastic eye appeal. As for the strike, I have seen better, but this is certainly sharp and acceptable for the grade.

This is not and never will be an MS66. Not 5 years ago, not now with CAC, not ever. BTW, this coin was encapsulated at about the same time as the Battle Creek Hoard.

 

No, this coin didn't go from 66 to 68 based on its toning. That's wrong. While toning is a grading factor, it's not the grading factor that made this 66 coin a 68. What did that, was market grading, itself...which, to put it succinctly, is grading loose as a goose. Even on circulated grades, they're taking unprecedented "liberties." This coin has the bag marks alone that wouldn't get it a 67, I'll say, just five years ago...and, now, look here, it's a stunning 68! Figure it out...the "why?"...and, congratulations, you just reached the first plateau!

 

I'm honestly a little surprised by the grade...but being an amateur grader (at best) I do tend to miss these somewhat regularly.

It looks to me that there is a little marking in the field to the left of the coin which I would think would hurt the grade a bit. Plus, the strike is very good...but not what I would come to expect from an elite example of an 1881-S Morgan. Then again, I don't have the coin in hand...and I know how pics can be. I wish I could see it in person, I have no doubt my opinions would change.

 

It is eye-candy

Dear Lehigh96

Nice coin! & thanks for the exercise. I would like to see it someday to appreciate the strike, marks, toning, etc. I'll bet it is eye-candy.

Very best regards,
collect89

 

I haven't seen many 68's in hand but after looking at a lot of 66s at Heratige this coin is way nicer at least a 67* , and I would feel comfortable with it at 68 .
rzage

 

Dude MS-68 man very awesome sweet

 

Eddie,

You might want to re-read the threads about market grading. If you are saying that the coin is an MS66 (technical grade) then the market grade of MS68 is caused by the combination of outstanding strike, superb luster, and dynamite eye appeal (i.e. toning). Everybody has agreed that the strike is excellent but not the best they have ever seen. That leaves toning and luster that market graded the coin up two points. Although the luster is phenomenal and can't truly be appreciated in photos, the toning is not impressive enough to warrant a market grade bump upwards of 2 points.

You mention that the coin has too many bag marks to warrant even an MS67 grade. Where are these phantom bag marks that you are seeing. The imperfections in the fields are luster grazes (not bag marks) and their impact on grade is not the same as a bag mark. The cheek is flawless to the naked eye, there is not a single discernible bag mark on the focal areas. This coin is an MS67 all day long and a PQ one at that which explains why it resides in an MS68 holder.

Furthermore, your whole explanation is inherently flawed. You claim that the reason why the coin is an MS68 now is because of Market Grading and that 5 years ago NGC would have assigned a grade of MS66. NGC (and PCGS) have market graded all of their coins since their inception. Therefore, what you are talking about is not market grading, it is NGC loosening their standards for particular grades. I promise you that if NGC loosend their grading standards to this extent and became that inconsistent that we would not have a big two of TPG's, and that PCGS would stand alone as the only reputable TPG.

That is simply not the case. The truth is that this coin is accurately graded and is market acceptable as an MS68 whereas it would probably only merit an MS67 if it were graded technically. When does a PQ MS67 Morgan become a market acceptable MS68? Right here with this coin.

 

All I am going to say is that it is a very nice coin. I bet that luster looks even better in person. Nice coin!

 

I fully agree. I'll bet this is one of those coins that pictures just can't do justice.

 

I think we should continue this exercise a little further. We have already established that my coin (1st) is an NGC MS68. Please guess the grade of the other coin and provide your reasons for the grade. If you feel so inclined, give your thoughts as to the technical grade and the resulting market grade.




BTW: I wish I owned this one but I don't. (photos courtesy of Heritage)

 

I'm finding this one quite interesting...so I'll give it a shot. By the way, when I say "point" I'm using an imaginary term...not an actual grade point. :rolling:

This coin (not yours), appears to have cleaner fields than your coin. I previously assumed that the marks to the left of liberty were bag marks but you said they are not...and since you have the coin in hand and I'll take your word for it.

However, those marks are luster breaks or something...therefore I'd say the second coin has cleaner fields (therefore...a "point" in it's favor). However, the hair above her ear is not as nicely struck on the second coin when compared to yours. Since this is another 1881-S, a coin with renowned strike quality, this hurts the second coin (so, take a "point" away).

I'd say that the reverses are about equal on both coins. Both appear to have minimal marks in the fields. Both have excellent strikes on the reverse. The second coin has what appears to be at least a PL reverse if not a DMPL reverse. However, the coin's obverse keeps the coin as a whole from earning the PL or DMPL labels.

Now, for my grade. I'll admit that now that have looked closer...my original grade for your coin was a bit low. However, I also feel that MS68 is too high for a "technical grade" and believe that it is somewhere in the 66-67 range. I feel the same way for this coin. Now, as I said before, IMHO this coin has nicer fields but a weaker strike than your coin. So, I'd say that those two factors cancel each other out. Since the reverses are about equal, I'd say that NGC gave this coin a numerical grade of MS68. Now, my personal opinion of this coin is that it is no better than an MS67 because the strike is not as spectacular for an 1881-S.

Finally, because the reverse on this coin has strong PL appearance, possibly DMPL I feel that this coin was awarded a "*" as it does not earn the PL or DMPL labels because the obverse does not have a PL affect.

So, my final "technical" grade for coin #2 is MS67.

However, I believe that NGC graded it MS68*