1909 ? VDB Lincoln Cent

I may have already posted this here somewhere before. I honestly don't remember. If I did, I'm hoping this is a new question.

My initial thought is/was obvious damage, detailed, it's toast! Just a cool conversation piece.

I've had this coin for years. I have no idea where or how I acquired it. Maybe from when I was a kid from my paper-route. I know I didn't buy it, I would have remembered that.
So here's the question I was talking about: Is there a conclusive/definitive why for you or a TPG to tell if in fact this coin is an "S" or just an 09-VDB?

Are there specific die markers or indicators for an S-VDB you can see on this coin? Hope these pictures help you, it's pretty much as close as I can get.

cc: @05Wildcats, @robec, @Pickin and Grinin, @BadThad, @dwhiz, @Razz

 

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Here are the MM positions for a genuine example.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/5217/Counterfeit-1909-S-VDB-Lincoln-Cents/
Positions 3 and 4 I believe would fall into the hole on your coin.
Maybe @justafarmer could help out with an overlay.

 

maybe it was used as a button ?

 

What's interesting to me is the V. D . B .

That would be a bummer if it was and S-VDB...which it seems to be (less the mm). Others here may have further diagnostics to consider.

 

The dot between the D and B is in the correct spot for the S-VDB, but the Philly VDB also had the centered dot along with the dot closer to the D. So all we know is that it COULD be.

I'm not aware of any other diagnostics other than the MM placement. Sorry.

 

Agree with spirityoda. This was used as a button 100 years ago.
Unlikely the hole would take out the entire S. (Similar to a carnival game.)
If it was an S there would be a visible fragment left.

 

I think I have seen this before
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/lincoln-cent-1909-s-vdb.343588/#post-3630926

 

What a mystery to be solved. Even if it could be determined to be an S, what collector would want it in its current condition? Still, just neat to know and hold on to. Great find.

 

Most die markers are weak, this coin is so worn, they would likely be gone. The ONLY real diagnostic for an SVDB is the MM itself. Everything else is "backup". Since the coin has no MM, it can never be an SVDB. It's an 09 VDB for the rest of it's life.

 

So yes, I'm losing my mind. Darn, I knew I posted something similar at one time! I looked and just couldn't find it! Thanks @justafarmer! And thanks for that overlay!

 

This was also mentioned. Some kind of kids spinning game.

 

I've been researching all this:

 

So let me ask you this, if I haven't already.

You're saying if I submitted it for attribution, it would come back in a body bag?

 

OK on the whizzer.
I thought the holes lined up more symmetrically. I am wrong again.
Nothing new there.

 

Islander's coin here would have made for a great segment on that old show, "Unsolved Mysteries". There really were not that many 09-S VDB's minted. Too bad it wasn't possible to take an official count to see if one is missing. I wonder where all of the unaccounted 09-S VDB's may be? You know that some are laying in the bottom of large bodies of water, via drownings and people 100+ years ago playfully flipping them into the water in return for the possibility of gaining some good fortune in return. I'm sure a fair number also are in disposal yards, from old furniture (couches and chairs) and junked vehicles. And a few real nice ones have to be innocently sitting out there in old farmhouse dwellings just waiting to be discovered.

 

I actually thought the coin was in pretty good shape, considering the full wheat lines and details of Lincoln's hair.

 

It seems to me that the holes were carefully spaced and drilled from the obverse through to the reverse. the other three holes were plotted to be in the flat field. Assuming that to be the case, the person drilling most likely would have measured and planned to drill all four holes over a flat field and avoid any details or raised lettering. Who would want to start a drill bit over a letter? If an 'S' was in that position, I suspect that when they measured for the holes, they would have rotated the coin a bit to avoid any lettering or uneven surfaces for starting the hole.

Granted, this reasoning is based upon some assumptions, but it is worth considering. When I include the fact that less than 1 in 50 VDBs were from San Francisco, it makes me skeptical that it was a S.

 

I agree about the condition. Without the holes, I am high VF. (35)

 

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If there was a most desirable Whizzer to add to ones collection it would be an 09SVDB or a 14D no D strong reverse.

 

Yes, good points. The holes look almost precision drilled. Maybe with a jewelers tool or drill press. The coin had to have been secured or stabilized, or I would imagine the coin would have spun as soon as the drill bit hit the surface.