Featured An examination of the counterfeit slab epidemic. Scope and advice.

A large percentage of them are modern gold bullion pieces.

 

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I am on the OP's side of this one, but...

I feel really strongly folks in this Hobby need to take ownership for their decisions- we all need to become "experts" of the coins we collect and lay out our hard earned cash on. If we take the responsibility to learn the varieties, die states and how to personally grade many of these mistakes could be avoided. And if you are outside of your expertise solicit the opinions of collectors with experience in that series or date. There are so many great specialized clubs (I am a member of EAC, C4 and LSCC), local coin clubs and specialized FB Groups out there that you can seek help or an opinion from why wouldn't you?

IMHO many collectors as well as the TPG's became complacent several years ago, opening the doors for the more sophisticated deceptive struck "super fakes" to catch us all unawares. And before we recognized the threat many slipped into top tier TPG holders and major auction houses. We need to take the ownership of our Hobby back! And that can only be done through thought provoking posts like this that challenge our thought process going forward.

And as a final thought, how many here would have immediately recognized this example as counterfeit? This one was in a top tier TPG holder and sold through one of the major auction houses; it matched an example sold on the Bay by one of my watched sellers and although I wasn't sure what was wrong I contacted my friends in the LSCC and now I know more about the series than I did- and this fake is in another top tier TPG holder; hopefully we can learn from our mistakes...


Best, Jack.

 

Huh ?

 

The “1795 dollar” was graded MS-612+

 

I think that this is the biggest problem, It might be a real good fake but the coin doesn't even have the proper relief to slip past an educated authenticator.

 

The relief looks roughly what it is supposed to be except around HALF DOL. The feathers aren’t as sharp. But we are trying to judge a 3-D profile from a 2-D pic.

However, the dead giveaway is the mintmark style.

 

I have to say that the smarpthone apps from NGC and PCGS which automatically scan barcodes work really well. They lock on really quickly, the phone can even be jittery and your hand moving, and boom !! All the data comes up.

 

It is worth saying that if you buy from a major coin auction house or very knowledgeable dealer, you chances of getting a fake slab are very slim to none. They will even have their own authenticity guarantee in the very rare chance they sell you a counterfeit slab. The paranoia implied in this article is geared toward more unprotected arenas (small shows, eBay, flea markets, online classifieds, We Buy Gold shops, pawn shops, etc.) where counterfeit slabs are quite regularly seen.

 

BTW, the smartphone apps appear to let you do as many coins as you want as opposed to entering in the cert numbers...makes sense, since you have the coin in hand.

 

Look at the robe below the elbow and detail of the robe to the inside of the right arm, Facial profile and the lack of fine details on the high points. This screams fake IMO.
Although could impersonate over polished dies, and nice looking metal flow.
It stands out IMO.

 

Sure things do get through from time to time as nothing is perfect, but seeing the lack of fake slabs at major auctions really kind of proves the point. The slabs aren't the big threat its the coins themselves.

The hobby is going to be fine either way, but we have to stop crying wolf like there's some major threat because a bunch of awful fake slabs which are from MANY different companies are out there

People that are going to fall for those awful ones would have fallen for awful raw fakes or doctored coins etc. eBay is no where near as bad as forums make it out to be, but it's also much easier for someone to learn what real slabs look like that pick out that fake half you posted.

There's always going to be the small shops or show dealers cracking out AU coins to sell as MS, or trying to mix some fakes in. The slabs themselves wouldn't even crack the top 10 in terms of potential traps for someone who has no idea and is just assuming everyone is honest

 

No they aren't, nor are the old NGC ones without pictures. There are so many more dangers for collectors than fake slabs that they wouldn't even be in the top 10. Slimy dealers, AUs being sold as MS, fake raw coins, being price gouged, cracked out details coins being sold problem free etc all much bigger threats for collectors and many of them never even realize it happened to them till many years later if at all.

The PCGS slab website is a great tool for people to learn about the different slabs if they want. https://www.pcgs.com/holders

More PCGS coins get pictured than you give credit for as well. All world coins besides modern get pictures, everything graded overseas is pictured, the high value ones US coins do as well as gold shield.

Would I like to see them all be pictured yes I would, but the basic premise that they're dangerous until they do is just completely off base. Brett has already said that will likely happen in the future.

NGC doesn't always do even a decent job with their pictures either, particularly with moderns there are a number where you really can't make a solid match and someone new certainly couldn't.

There's never going to be a perfect system. It's always going to be like weapons and body armor, sometimes the weapon is made to defeat superior body armor and other times the body armor is a response to the superior weapon. That's always how it has been and always how it will be.

Going forward though yes between PCGS and NGC since Brett has taken over PCGS has been much more innovative and years from now that appears like it will be significantly more than today. If you really are looking towards the future I would put my money on the younger forward thinking team out west.

 

I don’t have my Seated Half variety books at hand, but there are various mint marks for the 1872-S half dollar. A dealer/collector specialized in Seated coinage may know about the MM positions/styles for this particular year, but for the average collector it’s certainly not a “dead giveaway”.

@Jack D. Young IMO this is the most deceptive counterfeit (silver coins) you’ve shared so far. Wow.

 

Not sure I understand the "relief" comment but always willing to learn! And there in lies the rub though- how many of us are "educated authenticators"? It has gone through 2 top tier TPGs on the way until it was properly documented!

 

I have several in the $200-$300 range in TPG genuine slabs (TPG updated the on-line certs). This 1st 1787 Mass half cent is from the internet back in 2016, the second one highlighting the matching attribution marks from Feb of this year.

 

Back on track with the OP's post (sorry for the diversions...)-
posted in my Group last night; “a dealer in New Zealand showed this example at our club meeting today. Very poor lettering and the coin rattled inside the holder.

He said he cracked one of the ten he purchased and it only weighed 21 grams. Felt light in the holder too...”.

Bad coin/slab on the left, NGC on-line cert image on the right.

 

Well said!

I'm astonished at the unsupported pushback. TypeCoin presented his concerns about this important topic in a logical and non-sensationalizing way. He is one of the people I most admire and respect on this board.

 

Very interesting OP. I occasionally try [i.e. once or 2x per year] to buy an interesting slabbed US coin but simply don't go through the number of US slabs to be able to tell the difference. There appears to be little problem [yet] with the esoteric world coins that I buy but also I'd like to get an occasional US coin. For example I love the older Liberty Seated and Bust types but really don't have too many nice unc examples of these.

This means that unless one's a frequent buyer of US slabs, like all these guys who are constantly buying and flipping coins, it's going to be very difficult to buy a common slabbed US coin: even from a major auction firm. Yes I know the major auction firms guarantee the authenticity of purchases but what about genuine coins in fake slabs. This will also have consequences for buying coins at shows and conventions.

For example with that 1872-S half dollar in I'm guessing ms-64 or 65 grade. A 64 is $7,000 with a 65 at $16,000. Yet I would have never guessed it was a counterfeit from the style of the "S".

 

That is actually a pretty common attribute on 1870’s seated halves. Several 1877 S half obverse dies have this as well