Deceitful Ebay Sellers (what to look out for)

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I'm not going to take the time to attribute the two large cents in the auctions you posted because frankly the pictures are crummy, especially on the "1799". But I can tell instantly that it isn't a 1799.

 

I saw a Buffalo nickel advertised on Ebay "as a nice 1913S Type I" after much looking, it was indeed a Type I, as it was on the raised mound and it did have an S mint mark showing. However there was no date visible on the obverse. The seller was technically correct, it was a 1913S Type I. However, I do not agree with his description, that it was a "nice coin". I've never seen nice in a grading sheet, but you see more and more coins advertised that way on Ebay. I won't even open the ads if they say "XXXX Coin Nice". Maybe not against any rules or illegal, but it's definitely deceptive advertising if it takes 10 minutes or so of really examining the scan to determine what the coin is. It too bad that the members of this board could not band together and refuse to even open what they think is going to be a garbage coin with a slick come on. Then the sellers of those items wouldn't see the number of visitors to that page rise.
However, I guess it's only inevitable. The more markets that are created for a product, the more shysters there will be to invade the marketplace. In the above mentioned 1913S Type I nickel, I wouldn't pay a dime for it. But I'm sure some poor soul thought he got a bargain and bought it.
It is actually within our power to stop it. By the law of supply and demand, if we cut off demand then eventually the suppliers will quit wasting their insertion fees and go back to selling asphalt driveways to widows or whatever scheme they were involved in previously.
Vegas Vic

 

Based mainly on the obverse pictures, I'll guess 1803 for the first one and 1804 for the second.

The 1803 based on the relative position of the "I" in AMERICA to the lower two leaves in the wreath. The 1804 based on the relative position of the "D" in UNITED to the nearby leaf.

 

I personally do not even hesitate when the pictures are fuzzy or out of focus. I do not even care if they are in one of the big 3 tpger's holder. I skip the auction. I do not worry about what grade the holder or seller says the coin is - I form my own decision and what I am willing to pay. I especially dislike auctions that are 4 pages long and only have 1 sentence describing the coin. I know I might miss some good auctions, but oh well.

 

What really gets me are listings like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1807-Draped-Bust-Large-Cent-Sheldon-275-RARE-5_W0QQitemZ180274491958QQihZ008QQcategoryZ11947QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Seller says it's a R-5, when it's a R-3, and then says, "The bends in this coin are common to identify variety and occurred during minting."

Sellers like this need to be removed from Ebay but since Ebay only cares about making money, how can anyone get sellers like this removed? Ebay is on the side of sellers or they don't make money, that's the Catch-22 and it doesn't matter if we don't buy their wares, Ebay still makes money off the listing so as a buyer, we are pretty much left to defend ourselves.

Those are the facts! :headbang:

Ribbit

Ps: Here's another one from that seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1797-Draped-Bus...ryZ11947QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've already talked with him before, when he had these listed before, and he just refuses to listen!

 

HT-

You seem to have quite a vendetta against what you perceive to be fraud on eBay. I can't judge whether you're right or wrong but, instead of trying to get individual sellers to change their ways, why don't you attack the "problem" from a different angle and put your energies into getting eBay to change their ways. You can contact eBay Customer Support directly at 1-800-701-EBAY (1-800-701-3229) and explain your position. Let them know your credentials and expertise in the field and offer your services to them to help weed out the mistaken (at best) or fraudulent (at worst) listings. Offer to document your reasoning with email pictures and references.

 

Don't name names as in seller names?

I don't understand. Ebay auctions are in the public domain. Anybody in the world is free to look at analyze and discuss an auction.

 

This is actually a great idea. Somebody needs to kick ebay in the @$$!

 

They won't accept attachments. :goof:

I've tried many things and Ebay doesn't GAS!

Ribbit

 

My actual vendetta is against Ebay's lack of providing us a way to stop the fraud. Have you ever tried to report an item as fraudulent? They give you 100 letters to describe why it's fraudulent. Do you think that's possible? On one I did, I didn't even try to explain why it was fraudulent, I asked them why they didn't give us the necessary space to properly report fraud and I had to keep that simple or I would have exceeded the 100 letter limit. :goof:

Someday, someone is going to sue Ebay and the fact that they don't provide members the proper ability to report fraud, will bite them where they need to get off of, because it shows intent, or should I say, the lack of. :hammer:

Ribbit

 

Update on last auction(s) posted:

The seller finally caved in and listed his source for the R-5 rating, which is a 1958 Penny Whimsy. I told him to do that the last time he listed it but he refused. I guess this time he listened?

I can live with that! :thumb:

Ribbit

 

Please don't quote me before I'm done editing my post.

 

I caught that and thought it was funny you were editing your post while I was replying to it.

Ribbit

Ps: PM me when you're editing your post, to let me know you're editing your post, so I won't quote it until after you've finished editing your post.

 

My full response, which you only partially quoted above, provided a phone number to make a live person-to-person contact with eBay Customer Service.

 

I only quoted the portion I felt necessary to reply to because there are much more qualified people, than myself, who have made recommendations to Ebay and they didn't listen to them, so why would they listen a simple coin collector, such as myself? I'm nobody special and they were bigger somebody's than me, so explain to me why I should waste my time calling them, when other more qualified peeps aren't being listened to?

Answer:

Ebay doesn't care! They cannot make money killing listings all over the place and considering a large percentage of listings are deceitful in nature, want to guess how much revenue Ebay will lose?

So the only answer I've come up with, that works, is to post on here and at least help some peeps from being taken to the cleaners!

Ribbit

Ps: I've called Ebay & PayPal and all I ever hear is their hands are tied and they can't do anything about whatever it is I called about. I'm tired of wasting my time, becasue there ain't enough time in the day for me to do what I need to do, lil-lone waste it talking to Ebots!

 

So, what are they?

 

1799 = 1802 S-228
1803 = 1801 S-214

I'm the one that bought the S-214. And considering it's a high R-3, I think I got it cheap.

Ribbit

Ps: 1803 was a decent guess for the 1799 but the top of a 3 is flat, so I went with either 1802 or 1798, since both have a rounded upper portion and since there are fewer 1802 varieties, I started there first and got lucky.

 

Here's another one for you:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190240790586&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=009

Seller lists it as a "possible" S-180 and then says "Type 1??" which is referring to the hair style. I find it interesting that a S-180 is a Type 2 hair style, so the possibilities listed by the seller contradict each other, but they peridoically get dates/varieties messed up so I'm not surprised they missed this one.

I believe it's a S-160 (Type 1) and also a high R-3 (CoinFacts says R-5 but Heritage says R-3). The pics really suck so I won't know for sure until it arrives but then I'll be able to see the details better. :kewl:

Ribbit

Ps: Notice how the E in LIBERTY is centered in the dip of the hair and almost touching? Plus, if you will compare it to a S-180, you'll see not only does the LIBERTY not match up, the 8 is too low on a 180 for this to be a 180. But at least they didn't flat out say it was a 180 but with how they said it, it's "leading" the buyers and in a court of law, to lead the witness is not proper but on Ebay, it's rampant.

Pps: Here is a S-160 & S-180 on Heritage, to use for comparison:

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=460&Lot_No=2163

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=460&Lot_No=2183

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to learn.

This is a S-228. It seems to me that the position of the "T" in CENT is different in relation to the nearest leaf in the eBay coin. In the 228, the leaf almost touches the crossbar; in the eBay coin the leaf is barely above the base of the "T". Also the "O" and "N" look closer together on the 228 than on the eBay coin. I do understand that wear, corrosion, perspective and lighting may make a difference in perception but apparently you see things that I don't.


Looks loke a good call on the S-214.