Hi folks, is it possible to get f.e. an MS64+* designation for a coin. + for an high end of the assigned grade And * for exceptional ey appeal. Has anyone seen such a slab? Thanks Rheingold
It happens but not all of them should have the designation. This one below IMO is a joke. You can find some close ups about 2/3rds of the way down the page. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/to-star-or-not-to-star-official-game-thread.332059/page-29
Ridiculous.....stars and plusses from the original TPG when sometimes they are off by 1-2 grades. I get the CAC review of a coin's grade, but I think it's ridiculous that the TPGs are pretending they're discerning differences of <1 grade.
"Off" implies incorrectly that there is always, objectively, a correct and precise grade. The problem is that grading frequently attempts to assign a grade of a higher precision than is warranted. The real grade is most likely going to be a range, but nobody wants to see that on a slab. Assigning a plus grade does not mean the TPG is discerning the difference of <1 grade. If the true grade of a coin is the range 64-65, then a grade of 64 is accurate, and a grade of 65 is also accurate, however, assigning a grade of 64+ in that case is the best option. For example, I have a saint that has an obverse that is a 66 every day of the week. It carries the coin, but the reverse is a 64-65. The grade is 65+, and that is fair.
Yep. I think everyone agrees at this point that a coin's grade is a multidimensional thing (hits, luster, strike, toning, whatever), and reducing it to a single number is kind of silly. But we can't just go back to "unc/choice/gem", because "somewhere between 63 and 65" is different from "somewhere between 64 and 66".
That's a real good explanation, Jaelus, thanks ! It brings up an interesting question: do they just split the differene between obverse and reverse when they differ alot ? IOTW....if an obverse was a 66 but a reverse was a 62, do they call it a 64 ? Or 63, biased to the lower side ?
I personally own a 1963 Franklin graded NGC MS-65+* FBL. Posted below. I'm really glad you posted that, because it brings up a good point about the Plus: CAC does not verify the plus. CAC only verifies the grade. So, a CAC 64 means it is an A or B 64, a CAC 64+ means exactly the same thing. Stars, when applied correctly, can be useful. I see no legitimate reason for the +, and see terrible consistency with their application. Not exactly.... Sometimes? It is widely considered that the obverse carries the grade. A 66 obverse and a 62 reverse would probably be considered a strong 64 or maybe even 65. However, a 62 obverse and a 66 reverse would probably be a 62+, maybe a 63. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this policy, but that is what you might see. I'm a huge fan of split grades - rather than assigning one overall grade for two sides which might differ, why not just give me the grade for each side - call it a 66/62 and let me decide if I like it or not.
Stars in theory aren't a bad idea, but the problem was the implementation. It would be a lot better if there were more versions of the star instead of being a catch all for toning, one side pl, almost dcam etc. There's so many different meanings of it that a lot of people get confused unless its the obvious colorful toning
+ is a part of the numerical grade, meaning it is 70% to the next level (eg 64.7). * is a designation for superb eye appeal. They are completely separate, which is why you can have both. But bumping the grade up for eye appeal makes it all redundant and you end up with an overpriced coin.
How come they don't discuss these things before putting them out leaves way to much for the newbie to comprehend and reading the above.. They don't have the expertise as you all brake it down... a 64+ is really a 65 so when you sell it bumps up the price I take it. a newbie explaining it to a professional at a show bet that goes over like a lead balloon or silver..
They do explain it when it comes out. Understanding and Recognizing a Star (5/1/2002) Learn Grading: What Are the Plus and Star Designations? (6/11/2019) Though the + grading came out over a decade before their article. And a + grade doesn't round up to the next grade. All of the major price guides now include prices for the + grades and all the dealers know this. If you find a dealer who tells you the plus grade is meaningless and simply quotes you the price for the numerical grade without the plus, keep on walking. In addition, these topics are discussed at length on all the major forums. I bet there are at least a dozen threads on both the star and plus grade in Cointalk's archives.
