Counterfeit / Altered Coin Of The Day/Week

Well, I guess I could answer that with a question. Have you ever seen a die crack that is perfectly straight , running under the design & only about a millimeter long ?

 

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Not that short and not straight. Just was not sure if the cracks go over the devices or under them or if they can do both. Wasn't trying to sound disrespectful, just trying learn. Guess I'll be paying more attention to die cracks in my roll searching.

 

Tool marks are usually short and straight. Often there will be two or three (or more) tool marks that may be parallel to each other.

 

Your question wasn't disrespectful and by the way Bud answered you, I doubt he felt any disrespect. :thumb: He just pulled a "Kung Foo" on you so you are now Noost the Grasshopper.

Ribbit

Ps: Pulling a Kung Foo on someone is to answer their question with a question, like in the old TV program Kung Foo. When Grasshopper would ask the teacher a question, he never got an answer, just another question.

 

Great teaching technique wise master Budgood! Looking for die crack pics showed me Jefferson $1 crack and a state quarter crack on face. Now I know too. Thanks

 

Its all good man, I wasn't taking it the wrong way & I hope you did not take my response the wrong way :smile

 

The 3CS counterfeits are widely believed to have been done during the Civil War. The only dates I'm aware of are 1860 and 1861.

Perhaps for contemporary counterfeits? Our "good friend" (NOT) jinghuashei shows off 3 forgeries - 1863/4/5 on his bubbleshare site: http://www.bubbleshare.com/users/profile/305237?page=17

 

8/7/08

Todays coin is just a fun one - I actually laughed out loud when I pulled this out of a collection-

A 1896-O Morgan dollar cast in copper . at one point it appears that it was coated in silver or something close.

Besides the look , weight & sound the coins edge is just terrible -

 

Wax On Wax Off!
please, please keep this topic going, I read it quite regularily, I know nothing about counterfeits so I dont post.
lol

 

Those particular coins looks awfully good, except for the dates themselves. I wonder if they're not altered. Or, if they weren't made to fool collectors. If that's the case, they were made much more recently and are not in the same contemporary counterfeit category.

Thanks for the link. Those are interesting looking pieces.

 

No, they aren't altered, and they aren't contemporary. Most if not all of the pieces in that photo album are modern fakes from China. The products of one of those counterfeiting factories that we have seen the pictures of.

 

HI- just want to say that this is a great thread. I'm a moderator on the Coin Forgery eBay group and my interest is Trade Dollars. Can I post a link to an eBay auction for group consideration if I want to? I go through the trade dollar listings 2 or 3 times a week and am pretty familiar with most of the fakes. I'm no expert, just an interested collector trying to keep folks from being scammed.

 

coin of the day 8-11-08

Today we have a very deceptive 1912 $5 Gold Indian-

This coin was produced from a transfered die.

A transfer die counterfeit is made by creating dies by directly transferring the design from the original coin. This is done by striking the coin with great froce, and destroying it in the process, with a soft type metal die. They can can be quite deceptive, if the counterfitte takes care in making the dies.

If all the details of the original coin get transferred to the die, so will the defects from the original, such as contact marks. These will show up as depressions on all of the counterfeit coins made from this die. Unlike those on genuine coins, these marks will have the same look or surface qualities as the surrounding areas of the coin. Which sould not be the case if it were an impact spot or such.

There are a few spots on the coin where the counter fitter either tried to clean the coin up a bit or was just careless & left die gouges in the incused neck line . There is also another spike that I couldnt get a good close up of just below the bonnet but I did point an arrow to it on the main picture.
The coin has some weak areas that I have circled ,most likely from the damage cause by the impact on the original coin as thats where the major point of contact force would have been applied.

 

Speaking of transfered dies-

A great article-

http://www.coinlink.com/News/clubs-...ice-20-coins-declared-transfer-die-forgeries/

Featured News
CONTROVERSIAL 1853 UNITED STATES ASSAY OFFICE $20 COINS DECLARED TRANSFER DIE FORGERIESComment On This ArticleBy Kagins on Monday, August 11, 2008
Filed Under: Territorial Gold, Featured, Coin Grading & Authentication, Counterfeits & Fraud, Clubs & Associations
Experts at SPPN meeting settle four decades of uncertainty

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Todays coin 8/13/08

What we have here today is an 1852 Gold dollar cast counterfiet.

The coin was a cast copy that has been harshly cleaned to help hide that fact.

Still with proper examination we can point ot many of the diagnostics that will help you spot this type of fake.

1st off the "strike" is terrible very flat & mushy-with lots of "crap" or slag in the small areas around the devices.

The denticles have a saw tooth like appearance & go off at a diagonal.
There are spots of upset metal at the rim also almost all around the coin.
Finally there are many tiny raised bumps in spots all over the coin from the casting bubbles comming to the surface or from imperfections in the casts mold.

 

Since I post these in the morning sometimes they get buried by the time most people get home. Just wanted to bring it back to the top & see if there is any one reading or that has questions or even that would like to contribute to the thread - There are a few die hard members who look & post but the info is for everyone & I would sure like to see some other opinions . (Or I may just stop posting)

Thanks- J

 

Nice find, budgood. I especially like the micro-closeups- how do you do that? microscope? thanks.

 

Sometimes I use a stereo microscope, but of the time its just my camera on 2x zoom with my Zeiss loupe in front of it.

 

Todays coin 8/25/08

Well I took a little break from this thread but I still have the itch to continue so here we go again-

Todays coin is a 1910-D Gold Indian Eagle-

This is a struck counterfiet-

Some of the readily seen diagnostics are-

1st off the overall strike is very weak & mushy -

There are a few tint die lupms or spots that sit on the coin that just souldnt be there .

& finally the kicker is the edge - the stars are terrible in design with die spikes, inconsistant spacing & the also run off to the edge-

Not a hard one to spot but it fooled enough people for quite a few years until I was able to buy it & get it off the market-