Hello all, I’ve always had an interest in medieval history and have had my eye out for some time for the coin that would grab me and pull me over the Atlantic and back through the centuries. This dark, mysterious looking hammered coin did it: A certain fine fellow has been gently encouraging me to take the dive for a few years now, so with my newfound numismatic necromancy powers I shall summon him from the mists! @lordmarcovan Looking forward to getting to know you all on this side of the forum- Rob said you have cookies so I’m celebrating the new adventure this morning with a big one to go with my coffee.
Thanks- Yes, I was going to post in World Coins as it seems closer to that arena but doing a search came up with way more posts in this one for Groats so I posted here. Hoping to dabble in both but lots to learn for sure.
A very nice example & I have no issues with medieval posted here, it's done often. My example. Henry VI (1422 - 1461 A.D.) AR Groat O: +HENRIC DI GRA REX ANGL Z FRANC / Crowned bust facing, with annulet on each side of neck. R: +POSVI DEVM ADIVTORE MEVM VILLA CALISIE / Long cross with three pellets in each angle, annulet in two quarters and after POSVI. Annulet issue. Calais mint; im: pierced cross 2. Struck 1422-1427. 3.72g 27mm North 1424; SCBC 1836
Welcome to the cool guys! Medievals are posted frequently (I do it often). As far as I know, there are no ‘rules’. Cool groat, and superb condition!
John- It's about time you came over to the Dark Side, and I see the Force is strong within you! When the cookies weren't working at first (was it because they were macadamia nut instead of chocolate chip?), I thought we were gonna have to resort to hypnosis or use the blowgun and tranquilizer darts. See? You summoned me from my dark cave, after a 2+ month absence. Great groat!
While I agree that the coin is welcome here, it is not ancient. As a guide, I'd say that anything slabbed by regular NGC rather than NGC ancients is too new for 'Dark Side' status but it certainly is a nice coin and not produced by machinery as normal for modern coins. I don't go that far but do believe the coin was correctly posted here. Before we ancient folks were given our own section on Coin Talk, their 'World' section was subtitles for Euro coins as if the Euro was the biggest thing in non US. I do not want a separate for medieval but I don't really welcome Euros, machine pressed after Elizabeth I, modern world, NCLT bullion and anything produced for the purpose of selling to collectors rather than being spent. There are sections of CT for them. There is no hard line.
You've seen mine. Great Britain (England): silver groat of Henry VI, first reign, Calais mint, ca. 1422-1461, from the Reigate Hoard found in Surrey PCGS XF45; population 5 with 6 higher as of 11/25/2019.
Mat that coin gave me chills. Straight out of Game of Thrones! Back when they were making money hand over fist, literally. That's where the expression comes from. Anyway, cool thread.
Welcome to the dark side, @CircCam ! That's a very nice groat you have there – certainly a terrific start for a medieval collection. But be aware: ancient and medieval coins are addictive. If you continue on this path, you'll inevitably want more, and at some point, you'll probably also start liberating your coins from their plastic prisons... At leat that's what happened to me. Here are some of my current favorite medievals: England, Edward III, AR groat, 1361–1369 AD (“treaty period”), London Tower mint. Obv: +EDWARD: DEI: G: REX: ANGL: DNS: hYB: Z: AQT, crowned bust facing within a tressure of arches, fleurs on cusps. Rev: +POSVI x DEVM x ADIVTOREM x MEVM; long cross, three pellets in each angle; CIVITAS LONDON around inner circle. 26mm, 4.30g. Ref: Spink 1616. England, Edward IV (second reign), AR groat, 1471–1483, London mint. Obv: EDWARD DI GRA REX ANGL Z FRANC, pierced cross with pellet in lower l. angle; saltire stops; crowned bust facing within a tressure of arches, fleurs on cusps, none above crown. Rev: POSVI DEVM ADIVTORE MEVM; long cross, three pellets in each angle, rose after DEVM; CIVITAS LONDON around inner circle. 25mm, 2.90g. Ref: Spink 2098. Kingdom of France, Charles VI "the Well Liked" or "the Mad," AR blanc guénar, 1389 AD, Tournai mint, 2nd emission. Obv: +KAROLVS FRANCORV REX; coat of arms. Rev: + SIT NOME DNI BENEDICTV, Cantoned cross with two crown and two lis in angles. "Secret dot" under 16th letter of legends. 27.5mm, 2.55g. Ref: Duplessy 377A. Italy, Kingdom of Naples, under Robert "the Wise" of Anjou, AR gigliato, 1309–1317. Naples mint (?). Obv: +ROBERT DEI GRA IERL ET SICIL REX; Robert sitting facing on lion throne, holding lily scepter and globus cruciger. Rev: + hOnOR. REGIS. IUDICIU. DILIGIT; floral cross, lilies in quadrants. 28mm, 3.93g. Ref: MIR Napoli 28. Germany, Archbishopric of Magdeburg, Albrecht von Käfernburg, bracteate penny, ca. 1220–1232. Obv: OICI – IVSDV; St. Maurice, nimbate and wearing armour, standing facing, holding cross and lance flag; below, church building with two towers an an arch; inside, cranium relic. Rev: negative design (bracteate). 23mm, 0.68g. Ref: Berger 1586; Slg. Hauswaldt 167; Slg. Bonhoff 712. Germany, Bishopric of Halberstadt, under Gero von Schermbke (sometimes: von Schochwitz), AR bracteate, 1169–1177 AD. Obv: + S–STEPHANVSPROTOMARTI; bust of St. Stephen facing between three stones and star. Rev: negative design. 25mm, 0.83g. Ref: Berger 1324; Slg. Bonhoff 483.
A gigliato has been on my radar a while. Bracteates, too. So far I always seem to just miss the ones I go after. Nice stuff.
Two Henry's later, another Groat: England Henry VIII (1509-1547) Groat Silver, 24 mm, 3.05 gm Obverse: Crowned bust of King Henry VII facing right, legend around HENRIC VIII DI GRA REX AGL Z FR(A) (Henry the Eighth by the Grace of God King of England and France) Portcullis mintmark top right Reverse: Quartered shield of arms over long cross fourche, legend around POSVI DEV ADIVTORE MEV (I have made God my helper) Struck 1509-1526
Fantastic coins everyone, thank you for sharing. I think my next target will be something a little earlier, when a unified England was still a dream. Speaking of Britons... reminds me of the Peter Gabriel song “Mercy Street” : Looking down on empty streets, All she can see are the dreams all made solid, the dreams made real All of the buildings and all of the cars Were once just a dream in somebody’s head
Dark-Side cookies and GROATS! Yum-Yum! If the coins are hand-slammed, I like 'em. Mass-produced, machine-made? Leave'em to moderns. IRELAND Henry VIII 1509-1547 AR Groat 25mm 2.5g hЄnRIC VIII DI GR RЄX - RΛnCIЄ ЄT hIBЄRnIЄ harp H & R London SCBI 22 Copenhagen, Ex: @Mat
That is a lovely groat! I have yet to get an English groat, or a Henry VI, but I do have a penny from his successor: England Henry VII, r. 1485-1509 (1494-1501) Durham Mint, mm 76b, AR Penny, 14.88mm x 0.6 grams Obv.: [HENR]IC DI GR[A REX] AN. King enthroned holding orb and sceptre Rev.: CIVITAS [DE .:.] RAM. Coat-of-arms over long cross pattée, mitre above, R left, D right Ref.: North 1731, SCBS 2234, De Witt 3298 Ex. R.D. Frederick, Ex. Tradewinds Collection And are medievals considered the dark side? I always viewed us as the bastard step-children...
Yes, this has always been a heartache for me: I was born and grew up in an area of Lancashire that had great historical association with the English Civil War. Just a couple of miles from my house was the great historical estate of The Towneley family that dates back to the 1300s. Here is an excellent Towneley History that includes the participation of the family as Royalists in the English Civil War. Because of this I have been tempted to post some Charles I coins here (my CT home as it were). I did in fact do that once - and suffered some gentle admonitions - not too bad, but I have refrained from doing that since. But I would like to do that one more time before I croak: Charles I (1625-1649) Silver Half-Crown (1625) Tower Mint (Harp), Seaby 2771, North 2207, Diameter: 35mm, Weight: 15.13gm Obverse depiction: Charles I wearing crown and holding sword over his shoulder, mounted on plumed caparisoned horse walking left Inscription: CAROLVS DG MAG BR FR ET HIB REX (Charles by the Grace of God King of Great Britain, France and Ireland) Reverse depiction: Garnished oval arms at center. Inscription: CHRISTO AVSPICE REGNO (I reign under the auspices of Christ) I will remove this post if there are any objections.
