How Do We Know This is Not an SMS?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Osmanli, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. Osmanli

    Osmanli Member

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  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    ...because NGC sez it isn't... Let's see what members here say
     
  4. Joe Campbell

    Joe Campbell Well-Known Member

    I’m sure some will see it differently, but what difference does it make? The coin is a business strike ‘65 Kennedy. I can’t imagine why any rational person would care if it came in SMS or not.... buy the coin, not the slab. If you can’t tell the difference in the coin without the slab, it’s not a difference worth worrying about.
     
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  5. Osmanli

    Osmanli Member

    An SMS in this grade is worth $50. The bidding on this one is currently $1,050, not including buyer’s fee. I would like to know how they can be certain. As I said, it looks like a standard SMS.
     
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  6. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    The SMS coins are NOT business strikes. The coins are not interchangeable and this is reflected in the price difference.
     
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  7. Joe Campbell

    Joe Campbell Well-Known Member

    Clearly saw this and similar responses coming but I don’t think you get my point or question. What would compel you to value a SMS MS-67 w/ star at $50 and a non-SMS MS-67 w/star at many multiples of that? Or differently, if you were bidding on the coin why would you care if it’s an SMS? Please don’t use ‘the market’ as an answer.

    I spend my money however I like and obviously have qualms with others doing the same. I’m only asking what would compel someone to ask the question that is being asked because I don’t get it.
     
  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Why would you spend more or less on a proof vs business strike, or one mint mark over another, or one year over another, cam vs not, dcam vs cam, FBL vs not, FH vs not, PL vs not etc etc etc. Different things cost different amounts and yes they are differnt
     
  9. Osmanli

    Osmanli Member

    If this is a business strike, it is incredibly rare. SMS coins were struck with different dies and packaged for sale. If this is SMS, it is common. Rarity is a huge driver in prices of coins. I don’t get your confusion.
     
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  10. Joe Campbell

    Joe Campbell Well-Known Member

    None of the characteristics you’ve listed require a TPG to validate. The question in the OP is whether the coin listed was an SMS or not. My point was: if you need a slab to tell you what the coin is or isn’t, the difference isn’t that significant (to me). Your mileage may vary.
     
  11. Joe Campbell

    Joe Campbell Well-Known Member

    I was unaware they were different dies. If the dies are different, should they be easily distinguishable?
     
  12. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

    Cite that. I've always read that they were regular dies that were a bit overpolished.
     
  13. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Honestly it looks like an SMS to me.
    I think it was a labeling mistake. If you could even call it a 67, I wouldn't.
    @physics-fan3.14 what do you think. Does this look like a PL Bus strike?
     
  14. Joe Campbell

    Joe Campbell Well-Known Member

    That was always my understanding as well.
     
    green18 likes this.
  15. robec

    robec Junior Member

    SMS halves have more of a proof, mirror finish in the fields. They are fairly easy to distinguish between the two, especially in high grade.
     
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  16. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Well, excuse me for caring a bit about the market value of my coins.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
  17. Joe Campbell

    Joe Campbell Well-Known Member

    I mean no offense to anyone. I truly don’t understand why a collector cares about market value. I value a coin at $A. The market values it at $B. If $A is greater than $B I’ll buy the coin. If $B is greater than $A I won’t.

    Just as an example The market says Morgan dollars are worth a certain amount. I think they’re overpriced in general so I own very few Morgan’s. I’ll buy at or very near melt only.

    The market says I can buy full 4 digit date Buffalo’s from the 1920’s for $0.40. I think they’re underpriced so I buy them all the time. Easy game.
     
  18. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    So you think your personal valuation of a coin is not informed by and has nothing to do with the market value? I think not. Your own example about why you don't care about the market value shows you knowing the market value.

    The necessity of knowing the market value to a collector is obvious. It helps you to determine your own values for new types, dates, and varieties. It helps you to make money to fund your collection from making profitable side purchases. It is important when you sell coins (even collectors have to sell, as when upgrading). It helps you to determine collection value for insurance purposes.

    The market value IS the value. Nobody else cares about your personal valuation.
     
  19. Osmanli

    Osmanli Member

    No, I miswrote. I meant differently prepared dies. To my knowledge, they are not distinguishable by the dies. Only by their proof-like appearance.
     
  20. robec

    robec Junior Member

    The SMS dies were polished and struck on unpolished planchets.

    Coins intended for circulation were struck with unpolished dies on unpolished planchets.
     
  21. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    They were also struck with more pressure than the business strikes. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the planchets did receive some special preparation (burnishing) and handling, but were not polished like proof preparation. The coins, after striking, also received special handling.
     
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