The CLIPEUS/SCUTUM challenge

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Jan 31, 2020.

  1. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Is this one of the shield coins you are talking about? I realized that I had this in my collection but only saw it as a Macedonian tetradrachma of the mid First Century BC. What can you tell me about it? IMG_1283[3974]Mac. Shield obv..jpg IMG_1284[3978]Mac. Shield rev.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  3. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Donna, looks like something Mycenaean (figure of eight)from the Trojan War.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  4. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you're right. Which raises the question of why they would portray her that way.
     
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  5. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I don't know. More to the point how would the Romans know what the Mycenaean figure of eight shield look like as it was many centuries before this denarius was minted with this shaped shield? Were there extant wall painted images from that period of Greek history still around? Is there a description in Homer of such shields?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
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  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I wish I could answer your questions!
     
  7. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Firstly, I can tell you that I'm totally jealous. I've been chasing this type for sometime. Admittedly, with a limited budget. And have been the under bidder three times now! So, if you're getting tired if yours please let me know.
    Inspired by the old school ATG shield coins. This type is the first Macedonian coin, that I'm aware, made after the Roman takeover in 167 (suck a duck Perseus). Just a beautiful image of Artemis as you can ask for surrounded by the typical shield coin motif of dots, circles and that Macedonian star burst. The silver type right before these are the Perseus types that I've posted one of above and then the stunning pan boss types minted under Antigonus Gonads;).
     
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  8. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    After the defeat of Perseus at the battle of Pydna in 168 BC, the Romans divided Macedonia into four separate autonomous administrative regions (merides). The first region (ΠPΩTEΣ) lay east of the Strymon with its capital at Amphipolis, the second (ΔEYTEPAΣ) between the Strymon and Axios with its capital at Thessalonica, the third between the Axios and Peneos with its capital at Pella, and the fourth (TETAPTHΣ) included most of Upper Macedonia with its capital at Heraclea Lynci. These four regions only lasted until 148 BC when the country was finally united to constitute a Roman Province and proceeded to issue coins under the authority of its legatus pro praetore.
    Livy informs us that initially all commerce between the regions, exploitation of the silver and gold mines and the importation of salt were forbidden. Almost all the coinage of this period is struck in the name of the first region and runs parallel to the mass coinages of Thasos and Maroneia from about 158 BC. The first region was the most prolific in its coin issues, striking huge issues of tetradrachms and bronze. The second region had only two issues of tetradrachms and the fourth had only two issues of bronzes. No coinage is known from the third region.

    This Tetradrachm was produced for the province of Macedonia, under Rome, right before Macedon officially fell to Rome in 146 BC. Despite the legacy of Alexander the Great, Macedon was already under the control of Rome, and was governed by a tetrarchy appointed by Rome. This coin is unique in that it was not a Roman denomination, yet was produced inside the territory of Rome. It features very unique designs. The obverse was meant to duplicate a shield, with an effigy of Artemis. Around is an artistic pattern meant to represent the border of a shield. The reverse design shows an image of a club with the Greek inscription for “MACEDON.” Around is a wreath of oak leaves, with a Roman styled thunderbolt right next to the wreath. It was minted according to Tetradrachm standards of the day, which showed slight debasement from the original 17.2 g standard for the denomination.

    This is mine:
    Republican period. First Meris. AR Tetradrachm
    Amphipolis ca 167-149 BC.
    17.068 g, 32 x 34 mm;
    Ob.: Diademed and draped bust of Artemis Tauropolos right, bow and quiver over shoulder, in the center of a Macedonian shield

    Reverse: MAKΔONΩN / ΠPΩTHΣ above and below club, in field above, ΘΩΡ monogram) beneath ΤKΡ and ΤΥΕ; all within oak wreath; thunderbolt to left.

    upload_2020-2-1_14-51-14.png upload_2020-2-1_14-51-29.png
     
  9. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Ruler: Alexander III
    Coin: EF
    None - Macedonian shield w/ thunderbolt in center
    - B-A across field, cavalry helmet; thunderbolt below
    Mint: Macedonia (After 311 AD)
    Wt./Size/Axis: 4.16g / 16mm / -
    Acquisition/Sale: $0.00
    Notes: Nov 12, 14 - SNG Copenhagen 1119 var. ; Price 416
     
  10. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    Many thanks to all of you who generously posted their coins in this thread. A few comments :
    @octavius : I'm jealous of your collection of shields, especially the two coins described in the OP.

    @cmezner : your tetradrachm is incredible. I've never seen a shield example with the central boss so detailed.

    @kevin McGonigal : I hope you'll share with us your further research on ancient weaponry. About the shields, I did not wrote at all about the Parma, an oval shield also used by the Roman soldiers.

    @Ryro : without a doubt, I declare you the GREAT WINNER of the Clipeus/Scutum challenge! So many nice specimen of different shields.

    @DonnaML : thanks for posting(again) your denarius. Never seen it before. Just one word: WOW!
     
  11. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I think it's pretty amazing myself! It's like a still from one of those old sword & sandal movies. Or from Gladiator. By the way, when I said to note the difference between the Roman's and the barbarian's "swords," of course I meant their shields. (It's too late to edit.) The barbarian's shield is small and round with a boss in the center, while the Roman's is not only much larger, but oval in shape with some interesting decorations, and possibly a spine down the middle. (Most of the other examples of this coin I've seen are too worn for the decorations to be visible.) On the other hand, the shield of his fallen compatriot is large but appears to be round.
     
  12. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    A few more shields...

    Severus Alexander - Alexander Troas 2017 new.jpg
    SEVERUS ALEXANDER
    AE24. 6.97g, 24.6mm. TROAS, Alexandria Troas, 222-235 AD. RPC Online Vol. VI temp #3994; cf. Bellinger A338 (obv A338, rev A225 Type 44). O: IMP SEV ALEXANDER AVG, laureate, draped & cuirassed bust left, holding spear & shield decorated with head of Medusa. R: COL AVG, horse grazing right, the herdsman Ordes behind holding pedum (shepherd's crook), tree to left, TROAC in exergue.

    Lokris Opuntii Stater.jpg
    LOKRIS, Opuntii
    AR Stater. 12.09g, 24.9mm. LOKRIS, Lokri Opuntii, Opus mint, circa 350-340 BC. BCD Lokris-Phokis 60; McClean 5433; HGC 4, 992 var (control). O: Head of Demeter left, wreathed with grain. R: OΠONTIΩN, Ajax the Lesser advancing right, brandishing sword and holding shield decorated with griffin and palmette; spear on ground behind, Λ between legs.

    Macedonia - First Meris Tetradrachm 1946.jpg MACEDONIA, Roman Protectorate. First Meris
    AR Tetradrachm. 16.84g, 32.7mm. MACEDONIA (as Roman Protectorate), First Meris, Amphipolis mint, circa 167 - 149 BC. SNG Cop 1313; Prokopov 127. O: Diademed and draped bust of Artemis right, bow and quiver over shoulder, in the center of a Macedonian shield. R: Club; monogram above, two monograms below, MAKEΔONΩN above, ΠPΩTHΣ below; all within oak wreath, thunderbolt to left.
     
  13. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member


    WOW your Lokris stater is just magnificent.
     
  14. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Thanks! It's one of my favorite coins. The detailed ornamentation on the inside of the shield was what really sealed the deal for me.
     
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  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    [​IMG]
    Judaea
    Claudius with Britannicus CE 41-54
    Æ Prutah 17mm 2.8g
    Antonius Felix-procurator
    Dated RY 14 54 CE 2-crossed shields spears -
    Palm tree BPIT K AI L IΔ date
    Hendin 1348
     
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  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Please elaborate on the difference.
    r13070bb2252.jpg
     
  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    As I said above, I meant the difference in their shields, not swords. So I don't understand your question.
     
  18. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Perhaps he means, can you see any difference in the shields. For example, the soldier on the right may be carrying the Greek shield of the peltast soldier, the pelta, which often has a half moon cutout at the top of the shield, which the soldier on the left may be carrying. Any history involving Thermus Minucius Rufus and battling troops equipped as Eastern peltasts?
     
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  19. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    I don't see any cutouts. I think the appearance of them is just from wear on the second example of the coin.
     
  20. NormW

    NormW Student Of Coinology

    Hi Doug,
    Do you suppose these shields of this Trajan reverse are Roman or were captured by Romans?
     
  21. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    I'm a bit late to the party, but here are some

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    L. Procilius L.F., Denarius


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    Augustus, Denarius


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    Domitianus, Denarius


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    Commodus, Sestertius


    [​IMG]
    Septimius Severus, Denarius


    [​IMG]
    Plautilla, Denarius


    [​IMG]
    Constantine the Great, Follis


    [​IMG]
    Constantinopolis, AE 3


    [​IMG]
    Constantius II, AE2


    Q
     
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