Could a malicious guy with a press destroy our hobby?

I've been wondering for a while, how hard would it be for an individual with a hydraulic press and some junk silver coins to melt them down and create perfect counterfeit copies of rare, valuable coins, impossible to tell from the real ones, and thus destroying the market for collectible coins?

If the coins were made with 19th century technology, surely someone could go through the same process today without too much trouble?

 

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Some guy with a press would NOT fool me -
It would take an amazing amount of trouble to make a coin that would even come to a degree of being close-
Maybe in the future some guy with a laser type machine or something to that degree may make me 2nd guess a coin. If your trained well enough you shouldnt be fooled nor would any of the TPG's

I have purchased counterfits before ,it comes with the territory but the scenerio you are stating wouldnt bring down the market-

 

That exact scenario is happening right now in China, Hong Kong, and other places. Look on ebay for rare dates. mostly halves and dollars, and notice the sellers from china. Actually, sellers all over are selling great counterfeits right now.

 

What did the original mint do to their coins that would be incredibly hard for someone to do today?

 

I don't think it would destroy the hobby -- It sure wouldn't help it though. There is already a problem with counterfeit SLABBED coins being manufactured overseas, particularly in China and slipped into circulation especially thru the use of Ebay.

All the more reason to know the coin series and the individual who you purchase from.

Take Care
Ben

 

There are minute diagnostics on all coins that could not be replicated in a way to make them look original in appearance-

From metal flow lines ,small die chips ,die gouges,spikes ...ect many things on key coins- they may be able to replicate some but not all-

Even if a few slipped by they would be caught eventually - Not enough to destroy the market.

 

Process is readily duplicated; metal is not quite as easy as you make it sound, but it can be done; duplicating each and every detail of the original dye is impossible by hand, but may be achievable by computer in the not too distant future; then you have to duplicate the patina of the original coin.

I will be a few years before they can do all of this together for any coin desired - but that is to today's detection standards. The nest problem is who is to say when they will come up with a system to detect the age of the patina, age of the metal mix, or some other criteria for determining which is the fake.

 

Omega Twenties went unknown for years before they caught them. 1916 D Dimes 264,000 mint and 1 million known. You do the math. With todays technology these items can be made with out being able to tell. If who ever made the Omega Twenties would have left off the omega sign we might still be slabbing them.

 

That's why you need to educate yourself on how to identify counterfeit and altered coins.

 

It will get harder and harder to tell, eventually, which may kill internet coin selling and buying to a large degree.

 

Sadly, I suppose this it true. Most technologies improve over time... including the bad ones. :headbang:

Which is why the tech of detecting counterfeits must also improve, which speaks to Hobo's point about education. The best graders (pros, advanced amateurs, and top TPGs) will be cutting edge.

Gotta stay a step ahead of the hustlers.

 

patina would be tough to copy but lasers can cut exact copies. Presses are not where the problem is the next generation of lasers may be.

 

When someone can make the two headed quarter with lazer precision for $5 or so, I'm certain someone can come up with a system to make a counterfeit coin if they wanted to. Question is: Is anybody gonna make the gamble and maybe spend the rest of their lives in jail for it?

Ever hear about the counterfeit poker chip?

 

You beat me to it GD. I was about to post that but wanted to make sure someone else hadn't already done so. The only reason they were finally determined to be fake is because the same reverse die was used on issues several years apart. The obverse dies had different dates and they didn't get detected even by the alleged experts. PCGS even slabbed a bunch of them.

Interestingly, some fakes are more expensive than the originals so if the number made is small, it might even add to the hobby.

 

Internet buying and selling won't go away, it will just shift...

I think it may kill the auction type sites like eBay from doing a lot of coin business, but I think it will drive up the business on the dealer sites as long as they have a good reputation... sites run BY numismaticists, FOR numismaticists.

(Boy, sure hope I spelled that right... lol)

 

I think it's spelled "numismatists"

Do the dies still exist that stamped the original Morgan dollars? Could someone conceivably use the original dies to reproduce some rare coins?

 

Shouldn't the proper terminology for the title be "Stamping Machine" rather than "Press?"

 

I'm sure it's POSSIBLE, but probably fairly costly and not worth the legal risk.

 

OK you got me- a small example -
:smile
It was 100 years ago when news traveled at a snails pace & the best didnt have near enough examples to view or others helping them. With a team/company watching over coins I just dont think it will happen as easily as back then.

Not to the scope of the OP -of crashing the industry/hobby-