So is the PCGS Price Guide high?

That's a no-brainer. Why it's high? That's what we want to know. What do you think?

 

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OK! Which would you rather own, coins certified by a company who advertises that they can be had cheaply or one who says ours are the most expensive (i.e. respected) on the market?

 

That's where I was leaning, but it can backfire, too, and make them look like an amateur grading service. They want us to have confidence they can give us realistic grades on our coins yet at the same time they're showing us they don't know how to price them. What about a more realistic price guide? Just makes more sense a professional grading service would want to hold themselves out as knowing what the heck they're doing in every related respect.

 

I think the PCGS price guide is a marketing gimmick in part. They artificially increase their prices, and then give the price guide out for free. This strategy creates an image of PCGS coins being worth more than coins in other holders.

For example if you have two coins of the same grade in two holders, and one coin is actually and technically a nicer coin, which one would you want? Obviously you would want the nicer coin. Now lets add another dimension to this. Lets say the nicer of the two coins is in an NGC holder, and the other coin is in a PCGS holder. If you were able to obtain either coin based purely on the respective price guide you would likely pay less for the coin in the NGC holder? Does this really make any sense? No. This scenario can be seen all the time. Buy the coin, not the holder.

I would like to pose another question:

If you were not able to view the coin before you purchased it, which would you choose? NGC or PCGS?

 

There might be more than one reason why they do that. Perhaps RLM's thinking is part of it.

"Why are the prices unrealistically high ?" is tightly coupled with "Why have a price guide at all ?"

Remember that submitters must declare a coin's value when submitting. Why ? To have an insured value for return shipping. That's one reason to have a price guide.

Placing a high value there is wise; in the unlikely event your coins are lost, you're happy. Don't be underinsured.

High values are also "fail safe"; in a period of rising values, they don't want the price list to become obsolete overnight. Keeping 'em high covers 'em and allows a longer period between revisions. This is much less important than other reasons, I think.

 

Neither. I would never do that.

Eye appeal varies so much within a given numerical grade, one should at least get a really great photo.

No way would I buy a coin with NO idea of what it looks like. There are a very few close dealer friends whose recommendation I would accept sight-unseen, but they give me "right of refusal".

 

I only follow Lincolns closely, but I routinely find PCGS slabbed coins selling for more than the the price listed on the PCGS price list.

eBay 1924-D 7-16-08 62BN sold for $460, lists for $360 (in 63BN)
eBay 1924-D 7-15-08 63RB sold for $595, lists for $550
Heritage 1909 VDB 5-13/08 64RD sold for $150, lists for $145 and that is an ANACS slab

 

They claim to derive their prices from market data.... So maybe there is some truth.

 

From Pcgs Website

WHAT DO PCGS PRICES MEAN?

The prices listed in the PCGS Price Guide are the average dealer asking prices for properly graded United States coins. The prices are compiled from various sources including dealer ads in trade papers, dealer fixed price lists, significant auctions, and activity at major coin shows. Prices for the most actively traded coins are updated daily. Other issues are updated as needed. All prices are reviewed at least once a month.


It would be nice to see how they actually arrive at the prices......

 

Good answer. At least, the way they tell it, there's some rational basis for it.

 

Another part of your answer is in the above. Neither of those 2 even imply that the coins have SOLD for those prices. Per that line, if a dealer were to list his coin for $1,000,000, it would be included in their average. It might even be a typo, but it is now in the average.

 

I see the same with the buffalo nickels in mint state so it's not just lincolns.

I have to believe that for certified coins you're not going to find a better price guide. And pay attention to that last word "guide", that's what it is, it's not the written rule, it's just a guide.

And some people will say "those prices are for PCGS graded coins only" but I use the same list for NGC coins.

Now, if you are using the PCGS price guide and buying raw coins I think you need to re-evaluate.

 

Now that's very interesting. I'm liking PCGS and their Price Guide more and more.

 

Got it. Makes sense.

 

If you buy widgets, the pricing tends to be high.

For more rare coins, the pricing is often low.

Leaving moderns out of the equation, the PCGS price guide isn't too bad of a retail price guide for PCGS slabbed coins.

 

I would have to imagine if some idiot dealer listed a 1,000 coin for 1,000,000, PCGS would have to ignore that listing or otherwise be labeled in a similar fashion. I don't think they would average in ridiculous numbers, unless they desire to become ridiculous.

Also as to people making comments about some coins being high, and other coins being lower, or more reasonable according to the price guide I would tend to think that certain areas of the market are on fire.

I have heard from many people/ sources that coppers are really seeing a boom right now. I think this would be a contributing factor to the relative high hammer prices for coppers in relation to the price guide. They may not be able to keep up.

Also I think when you start dealing with modern stuff the prices tend to get out of whack. Look at their prices for MS64/65 FBL Franklin Halfs just as an example. All this hype over modern MS70 coins is garbage as well. Actually any modern stuff meant for circulation or the proof coins that are certified are over priced. The sad part is, I tend to believe people actually pay those prices. I think this will be a huge loser for those folks in the future. Even if there is a demand for this stuff.. the supply is virtually unlimited. That is why I don't think prices can really keep up for ever. Sooner or later the market has to fall out the bottom of the State Quarter phenomenon as well.

I relish the day when Silver Mint Sets become bullion.... Then mine will be worth something....

 

Great posts from the specialists in Lincolns and Buffaloes ! Interesting. Thanks !

As a type collector, I am less specialized, which is both good and bad. On the bad side, I see less depth on any given series. On the good side, I see more scope.

And what I see, across the broad range of all American types, is that PCGS price guides are WAY high : commonly 20% or more.

I check many sources of pricing when considering a buy. I doubt I have ever paid PCGS price for a coin (maybe a very few, exceptional pieces).

 

rhoggman,
You missed my point. For as high as those 24-D's were that I sited before, Just opened a Coin World to Jack Beymer ad. They are selling a 24-D 66RB for 4610 that lists for $3,000. BTW that is NGC certified, not PCGS. They want $11,295 for a 1914-D listing for $10,000. Per PCGS's definition of what they are using for their pricing, those numbers are probably included - even though they may never sell or at least never sell at those prices.

 

So your point is those listings are factored into PCGS the price guide? How exactly did I miss your point? PCGS claims to compile and average all of this information.

Are you saying the PCGS price guide should only be used as a "guide" because prices can vary widely? If so that makes sense to me.

Could it be those coins are considered PQ for the grade? Could it be an example of pricing the coin and not the holder?