Numismatic Idiots Selling Coins on Ebay

Howdy fellow coin peeps, :thumb:

I run across so many numismatic ignorant peeps selling coins on Ebay but recently I ran across this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260262927025

I messaged the seller and told them it wasn't a Type-1 Hair Style but rather, a Type-2 Hair Style. He replied that he knows it's a Type-2 and that he never said it was a Type-1. However, a Type-1 is known as a 1800/1798 and a Type-2 is known as a 1800/79, so by calling it a 1800/1798, he is claiming it is a Type-1 Hair Style, in a round-about way.

He replied to that and further claimed he didn't say it was a Type-1 Hair Style, so I tried one last time to get him to understand he needs to change the listing from 1800/1798 to 1800/79 but his reply to that was he knows more about large cents than I will ever know and to leave him alone.

So, I figured I'd share my latest encounter with an numismatic idiot selling coins on Ebay and see what other members have to say about listings like this one and to ask this question - Can the buyer of this coin demand a refund for the seller misrepresenting the coin, for the reasons stated?

Ribbit

Ps: If you run across other similar listings, feel free to post them in this thread. It may bring a smile to someone's face and a smile is the greatest way to spread love! :thumb:

 

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That right there should have been your first clue that this seller was not going to listen to anything further regarding hair type. True, he did not expressly claim the coin to be Type 1 Hair. He claimed the coin to be 1800/1798. This is where you should have focused your point. Instead of claiming the coin not to be Hair Type 1, you should have told him that the coin was an 1800 80/79, and not an 1800/1798, since he explicitly stated that the coin was an 1800/1798. At that point, the seller really could not have argued without looking like a completely scam artist. The way you argued your point with him however, only makes him look foolish.

Your argument may have failed with him because of your initial assertion regarding Hair type. I do not know of any premiums on this date except in higher grades, so the bidder will still get his/her's "money's worth". However, when you are trying to collect all three types and you think you are getting one thing and receive another, it can get upsetting. The seller will definitely have to deal with it when the time comes.

 

My thought was, that anyone who cares about specific varieties of this coin, will probably have educated themself about how to recognize the difference between the specific varieties anyway. It seems this isn't a "scam" but genuine ignorance/misinformation on the part of the seller, since the variety he claims it to be isn't significantly more valuable than what it actually is anyway.

 

A Type-1 HS lists for more than a Type-2 HS (30%+) so someone ignorant selling to someone ignorant, doesn't make it a smart buy, it makes it a bad deal! So there is more to this than ignorant sellers on Ebay, there are also ignorant buyers on Ebay and the odds are good an ignorant buyer will end up with this coin.

While we can't do a lot to help ignorant buyers on Ebay, we can help our members by posting items like this one to help educate them on what to watch out for and to show how "slight-of-word" can make a big difference in the value of a coin. hya:

Ribbit

 

The problem is that buying this coin under the assumption that it is an 1800/1798 as opposed to an 1800 80/79 provides a falsified education in this area. If the buyer purchases the coin after looking up the "price guides" and sees that there are three varieties that are close to price in lower grades, will erroneously "educate themselves" as to what the 1800/1798 looks like.

Now, if this buyer then sees an 1800 sold that has the same date markers as the coin he previously purchased as an 1800/1798, and the coin grades above Fine, then this misinformed buyer could potentially spend hundreds to even thousands of dollars more for an 1800 80/79 since the 1800/1798 goes for quite a premium above the 1800 80/79 in mid-circulated and uncirculated grades.

This seller's auction, and his refusal to correct it, is potentially dangerous.

 

and a smile is the greatest way to spread love! :thumb:[/QUOTE]

no its not toad and you know it stop trying to fool people

 

Staying on that subject for a second, last night I was playing around in Heritage, looking at various varieties (DBC's) and I ran across one that was incorrectly attributed by Heritage. I know it was incorrectly attributed but if some poor smuck happens across that in a cross-reference to a coin on Ebay, they will end up buying a coin thinking it's one variety, when it is another less expensive one. That wouldn't be good!

I don't know if Heritage will correct something like that but I think they should, but I also don't have a clue who to notify at Heritage, to get it fixed. I would also think Heritage should notify the buyer that a mistake was made and offer to make it right.

I thought that fit in with what you were saying so I figured I'd add it to the conversation.

Ribbit

 

@ Spock

 

troll if anything broke the toad did it

 

Again, @ Spock

Here's the coin I was talking about:

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=390&Lot_No=19498

Going back to find it, I scrolled down further and saw the slab it was in and it wasn't Heritage that misattributed it, but NCS. That's even worse but definitely not Heritage's fault! So, sorry Troll! I didn't scroll down to the slab last night, I just looked at the big pics and never realized there were pics of the slab below the big pics.

Ribbit

Ps: It's a S-220 instead of a S-221 and I believe there is a price difference between the two.

Pps: I just looked one more time and realized there are two coins pictured in the auction. The top one is a S-220 and the bottom one in the slab is a S-221, so now I don't know what's going on? Was the one in the slab, the one being sold or was both being sold together in a lot? It looks to me like Heritage posted the wrong enlarged pics? I'm confused! :headbang:

 

Well lets see I can set him off. I sent him this

This is not an 1800/1798 cent, it is 1800/179 with no last digit on the underdate. There were six leftover dies that were overdated in 1800 but only one of them had the full 1798 date on it and that die had type I hair (used on four die varieties). All the partially dated 179 dies had type II hair as does the coin in your auction.

Strictly factual and concentrating on the description of the date and not the hair type but with the hair type worked in. I still don't think he will do anything, and he already has a bid so he can't change the title now. But my bet is he doesn't add to the description (which he can do) to indicate that it isn't the the 1800/1798 overdate.

 

Good thread - never really thought about this because I try to attribute all the large cents before I buy them. I usually do not even pay attention to what the seller says for attribute.

 

I'm thinking he may be an older collector cause he didn't like this toad telling him he boo-boo'd. Also, how I said I explained it to him wasn't the whole nine yards, it was the jest of things and after my 2nd message to him, I had clearly explaned the problem and yet, he still didn't get it, so I sent a third message "spelling" it out so a third grader would understand it and with that, I got the reply to leave him alone. :goof:

So while the way you handled it is clearly correct, I already pee'd him off so you may be talking to a brick wall because of it. :headbang:

I see many improperly listed coins on Ebay and most of them hurt the seller, not the buyer but when I see potential for the buyer getting hurt, I message the seller and inform them of the problem, as in this case.

Ribbit

 

You and I do that and I know Conder would, but the average bidder doesn't so that was why I posted this. It doesn't hurt to learn stuff about other coins because you never know when you might buy something you're unfamiliar with.

Knowledge is the key to eradicating ignorance. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

Good point I will try to be more diligent, the problem is that most Large Cents on ebay do not interest me.

PS Toad - Don't tell Tom I also double check him. Boo-boo's do happen sometimes, but so far no mistakes that I have caught.

 

I dew too but I'm actually looking to make sure he doesn't have a NC instead. I've only found one boo-boo and it was a typo, not an attributing error. Tom is pretty darn toot'n good! :thumb:

Speaking of attributing error, my newest NC-6 is a S-190. I could have sworn it was identical but I missed something. Bob got it in today and already checked it over plus found a buyer for my 1846 N-10. He got me a good price for it. So my new book is going out tomorrow with a nice check in it. I don't remember when I got that N-10 in so I don't have a clue what I paid for it but knowing me, since I didn't catch the rim cud in the beginning, I didn't pay much for it.

Ribbit

 

Sorry to hear that - I guess I was wrong too. Well condor at least two of us are looking for these now.

 

The silver lining is it's the better one out of the two and I needed a 190 for my collection so now I've got that one covered.

Ribbit

 

For those who love Casablanca...

Remember Claud Rains as the Prefect of Police ? If I may paraphrase one of his best lines...

"I'm shocked... SHOCKED, I say ! ... to find that idiots are selling coins on E-bay !!!"

 

heres my reply:

WITH THE GRADE OF THIS COIN , IT REALLY DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER IT IS A 1800/1798, OR A 1800/179, I HAVE BEEN SELLING THESE FOR 30 YEARS AND HAVE NEVER HAD A COMPLAINT , IF YOU WANT TO BID OR NOT IS YOU DECISION, RON.-----------------------------------------------------------------

and I mentioned something like, how I must have been his first complaint.. along with 2 others that I know sent him mail..
oh well, some people never learn..