ENGS threatens to suit coinauctionshelp.com

I received and email from the owner of ENGS (Elite Numismatic Grading Service) and here it is.
TO WHOMEVER.

ENGS COINS IS MY COMPANY,SAYING THAT YOU WOULD NOT PUT A MS 69 PEACE DOLLAR IN MY HOLDER IF YOU HAD ONE IS SLURING MY COMPANY. I TALKED TO MY ATTORNY HERE IN EVANSVILLE, INDIANA AND HE'S GIVING YOU 1 WEEK TO REMOVE YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT MY GRADING SERVICE.OR YOU WILL BE IN COURT AT YOUR COST.

1 WEEK. TERRY JONES
Here is the web page he is referring too:
http://coinauctionshelp.com/ENGS_TPGS.html
If there's any lawyers on this board, any advice is welcome.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

I would remove it. I really don't think he would sue but who knows. Plus when I read your site a few weeks ago I thought you were getting very close to this type of thing.
Posting info about the grading co's is great but I wouldn't go farther.

EDITED TO ADD:
http://www.sampleslabs.com/dcgs.html
This is a site that posts info about grading Co's. I would suggest posting a link to his site on yours.
If you don't like that idea at least read his write ups --- that is about as far as I would go on a site such as yours.

Speedy

 

But I have a disclaimer on my home page stating it's all my opinion because I expected hate mail and threats. The guy couldn't beat me in court, but I don't want to go there.

 

It's great you took a stand , but I would take Speedys advice , he probably won't sue but do you want to take the chance .
rzage

 

I wouldn't worry about him. He is trying to accuse you of slander and if attorney really wanted to get involved he would have charged the guy to mail you a letter stating you had one week to remove it.

If you are really concerned and dont want to deal with the headache you could just update the info and state (and this would really rub it in)

Change from:
No information on this grading service, but if I had a Peace Dollar that would grade MS69 it wouldn't be in their holder. Because an MS69 Peace Dollar is extremely rare and valuable, and would not realize the lofty premium it deserves in an ENGS holder as it would in a PCGS or NGC holder.

To:
A relatively unknown grading company that marketed slabbed coins are seldomly seen. As with any slabbed and/or graded coins including this particular Peace $1 MS69 you should be subjective and grade the coin for what it is rather than rely on a slabbed coins stated grade. If buying a coin based on the stated grade such as MS68, MS69, MS70 than you may in fact be purchasing a coin which grades much lower based on ANA grading standards netting a potentially large loss if the coin is later sold. Personally, I see contact marks that would eliminate this from MS69 status based on popularly accepted ANA grading standards.

If you feel that you shouldn't change your description very much just state facts that can easily be argued and proven:

No information on this grading service, but if I had a Peace Dollar that was MS69 I would choose NGC, PCGS, ANACS. Because an MS69 Peace Dollar is extremely rare and valuable, the market place would discount the coin sight unseen due to the recognized accuracy and consistency that collectors attribute to well known grading services compared to relatively unknown services.

By changing the description you are not as much stating how terrible this fly by night grading service is, but rather stating buy the coin and not the holder....and by the way beware of over graded coins. By stating personally that you are implying that this is your opinion which any judge will quickly recognize. And to whom it may concern....... I talked to my local attorney and you have my may have my full and unconditional use of the above statement.

Overall like I said he is mad that you are bashing his little operation and if concerned just re-word the information, but dont let this guy try to bully you. Stick it to him!

 

What did your local attorney say about my statement?

 

Sorry, I was just be sarcastic as this guy was quick to claim to have an attorney ,which I doubt, then I thought I would claim my apparent attorney said t was ok for you to use "My language" without the potential for a lawsuit over copyrighting my description.

 

You probably should just be more careful about the way you word things. You could get the same point across by noting that this coin, like many lesser know grading companies, would probably grade several points lower if submitted to NGC or PCGS. Then if he threatens to take you to court, just tell him "fine, we can submit the coin to PCGS and see if what I said was true."

 

DoubleDie nice website , really , going to court will cost you in time energy & money .
rzage:smile:hatch::hammer:

 

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
When crooks threaten lawsuits

( I have a different opinion and perspective )
You are doing the hobby a favor

 

A disclaimer might not help alot. And since it states that it is your opinion then he might be able to sue saying that you are doing slander. If he could sue on that it would go to court, and if he won it would cost you alot, and if you won it would cost you alot.
I would say that it would get settled out of court...and still cost you alot.

Speedy

 

If this is truly libel and defamation, a disclaimer will not help in any case. However, this company is apparently in Indiana. Libel and defamation in Indiana have per se requirements, not per quod. As such, malice must be proven. Indiana also has a fairly straightforward anti-SLAPP law.

Best thing is to present the facts of the matter to as many attorneys as possible over the next few days and try to find one on contingency.

Yes, lawsuits take quite a lot of energy as well as time and money. And you are correct, if he losses it could very well cost quite a bit. However, again, malice is very important in prosecuting libel and defamation in Indiana. Also, one's opinion could be construed as a statement of fact. If you make a statement that you would buy a Toyota over a GMC, you are not committing libel any more than you walking out of Best Buy as you tell the salesperson that they were rude and you will take your business elsewhere.

These are both subjective matters, not objective truths. And if the threatening company did in fact lose after filing a complaint (and it does not even necessarily have to go to court), there are definitive reliefs in Indiana under both cause of action codes and anti-SLAPP codes, which include attorney fees AND punitive awards.

The SLAPP issue is the only iffy part that I can see, because it could be argued both ways that the third party grading is or is not of public issue. However, if the judge could be convinced that it is in fact a matter of public issue, then an anti-SLAPP counter would be an effective defense against the libel/defamation since Indiana requires such to be with malice.

Also, if the owner of ENGS does actually have an attorney, as said before, the attorney would be doing all the talking and NOT the complainant. Not only that, but I am sure any attorney would consider the ramifications of filing a malicious cause of action and malicious use of procedure action on a case that borders so close to being a SLAPP.

On a federal level, a successful anti-SLAPP could easily open the doors to federal felony prosecution as well as civil relief under both State and federal laws.

Again, the two key words here are attorney and contingency.

Best of luck to you.

 

Rewrite it

 

The only guaranteed winners here are the lawyers. If I were you I would rewrite it and move on. Believe me, you don't want to become enmeshed in a law suit if you can avoid it. You will lose even if you win. It will cost you a bundle to prove you did nothing wrong. And there is always the chance you will lose.

You can lose even if you are in the right. Lawyers pick jurors (or strike jurors) based on who they think they stand a better chance of winning with - not which jurors are the most intelligent. (In fact, being intelligent is probably the most common reason a potential juror is struck.) If ENGS's lawyer gets the jururs he wants they may be sympathetic to the charges he makes against you. Before you know it, you have lost a "can't lose" case.

Unless you have a lot of time and money you can throw away on this I would advise you to back down.

Choose your battles wisely.

 

At one point I had a blog started about "grading services". Too busy to continue - hell don't even know where it is.

I'm not a lawyer etc. howver, it seems to me that one should be able to point out an opinion if worded correctly. We do it all the time here on CT and I have yet to be threatened with a lawsuit.

For safety I would just remove the "opinion". Make it better and move on.

Save yourself the hassle.

clembo

 

Just wondering where the case would be tried? In Indiana or in DoubleDies state? That would be the deciding factor. If he has to go to another state to file a claim and go to court on something so borderline, most people wouldn't bother. I think we need a legal fund here. Just as a backup incase a member gets sued for doing what is right. Good work and peace out.

 

Simple change

Change from:
No information on this grading service, but if I had a Peace Dollar that would grade MS69 it wouldn't be in their holder. Because an MS69 Peace Dollar is extremely rare and valuable, and would not realize the lofty premium it deserves in an ENGS holder as it would in a PCGS or NGC holder.

To: changed text in bold.
No information on this grading service, but if I had a Peace Dollar that would grade MS69 it wouldn't be in their holder, or any non-top tier holder. Because an MS69 Peace Dollar is extremely rare and valuable, and would not realize the lofty premium it deserves in any other holder than it would in a PCGS or NGC holder.

Now it is no longer specific to his company but still gets the same message across.

 

Sounds familiar........................

 

I'm not a lawyer so my opinion and comments are not gospel. That being said, he can sue you, and if he wins, he can force you to retract your statement and post an apology. He cannot sue for damages unless he can show that your statement cost him revenue in the way of lost clients, i.e. people stopped using his service because they read AND believed what you wrote. However, if he wins, he can ask for compensation for legal advice and representation. Likewise, you can sue for legal costs, but it is likely that a judge would completely dismiss the case or rule that you must post an apology and all legal cost are thrown out and to be paid by each party. Either way, it will cost you legal council. I would think it would be easier to reword, as many have suggested, and be done with the whole thing. A mentor once told me, ‘It’s all in the wording.’ And that holds true in this case as well.