Oh you wacky kids and your fantasies! I can vouch for Jack at the Long Beach show. He turned his head briefly at the PCGS table and the smoking hot babe looked at me. She licked her lips, winked then pointed at Jack. As she pointed at Jack she did a mock "put my finger down my throat and wretch". Then she mouthed the words "looks nearly as nasty as Spock". Luckily I'm this observant. If you don't believe this then just ask her.
Just a correction, this would apply mostly to corporations (which the TPGs mostly are), which are effectively entities of the State, and thus have an inherent obligation to make their stockholders' investment prosperously return. Other forms of business entities, especially sole proprietorships, are more free to integrate a rule and sense of ethics and morals in conducting their business. Many of the older brick and mortar coin dealerships were this way. For certain purposes, including liability, many of today's coin dealers will incorporate, but there's no law stating that you must, nor that you must even take "your" company public. To me, it is this fact that attracts me more to a knowledgeable independent dealer who has a proven record of integrity and scruples over some corporation's plastic. Yes, individual dealers are in the "game" to make money, and pay bills, but they are more free to interject their individual ethics to protect their reputation. A publicly owned corporation must by law put their stock holders' desire and greed before any sense of ethic and scruple. This is why, not just in dealing with a large corporation like PCGS or NCG, but with any business, get it in writing. When dealing with any business entity, you either play by their rules, or chance losing the game. The OP decided not to play by "their rules". No TPG is under any obligation to change the rules for anybody regardless of how much business that individual brings them, unless their "bosses", the stockholders, vote otherwise.
Ditto, except for the excerpt that I quoted. I do not believe it is necessarily a fact that people, for the most part, make a "mistake" grading their raw coins. Remember that grading is subjective, and I'm not using that as an excuse either. Amongst the varied TPG's, I am sure we can all agree that they have their own set of standards that are used. NGC most certainly does not have the same standards as SEGS, and neither does SEGS have the same standards as PCGS. ANACS will certainly be said to have a different standard than coins in a PCI slab. It is not necessarily a simple difference in the abilities of the graders, either. PCGS will not tolerate a grader who cannot grade in accordance with the standards that they implement through their policies and procedures. Their graders must have a specific method, if not philosophy, in their grading. Likewise, a grader will not simply move from NGC to ANACS, without at least the slightest "re-educating" into their own standards. Though the TPGs may mostly have a common root in their standards, they are not the same standard. I would liken it to the Romance languages. A person who is fluent in Spanish will have a pretty easy time with Portuguese. Latin and Italian, though with different fluctuations in accenting words, and pronunciation, can pretty much be made at least a little sense of by someone who is fluent in Spanish. Likewise, someone who speaks French, may have a hard time at it, but can get along, I am sure, in a Spanish speaking environment, provided that the speech is slow enough and pronounced hard enough to correlate the word roots. If something has the same root, the derivatives can be very similar. That is why MS66 can vary between TPGs. Although they may have a common root in their grading standards, there are still minute differences. TPGs that hold more in common to the root standard, come closer to being "crossed over" successfully. And in this is the problem. Not that "non-professional" individuals do not know how to grade, nor that they grade incorrectly, per se. But, the problem is that there are so many different "standards", that individuals tend to have a most definite bias (and no, hatred has NOTHING to do with the word bias. It simply is defined as a leaning, or preference) toward a certain standard, all their own, that they grade their coins on. A person who is in the practice of cracking out for resubmissions have a plethora of standards to consider. With coin in hand, a person can pretty much make a determination of a grade within a point. However, the plastic does actually cover quite a bit. For a few, this may be a valid reason as to why they may choose to crack out rather than to resubmit in holder. Without the plastic, flaws that may have been dulled are more easily determined, as well as perfections in areas the plastic indicated possible imperfection. In our bias, we may prefer the standard used by ANACS, and be able to submit to ANACS with 99% accuracy. But, submitting to PCGS, using that same standard, may bring our percentage down to 60% success within a two point spread. Even "the professionals" do not try to play the game by multiple rules. This is the only mistake that I see with people that miss the point on the crack out game. They can sometimes let the slab insert cloud their judgment, use the "wrong standard", drink too much of another company's kool-aid, but I would not necessarily say that their mistake was simply improper grading because of the individual's ability Especially when it comes to a hobby where the state of the collected item is so subjective, I would not necessarily say that a "professional grader" (that is, one who grades in a professional capacity for monetary recompense) "grades right" or "grades wrong". The professional grades in accordance with the policies and procedures outlined to them by their employer. Neither will I say that the hobbyist "grades right" or "grades wrong" with any coin. Grading is subjective. What one person perceives in a coin, another may well either miss or outright disregard. Bias on color, toning, light cleaning, secondary and tertiary detractions, etc. It is all subjective. Some people tolerate more than others. And that's alright. But, really, unless you are falsely attributing the imaginary "perfect 70", or calling cull a perfectly good slider, there is really no right or wrong in grading. It is all subjective. So, when it comes to cracking out and resubmitting: If you're gonna play the game, be prepared to feel the pain.
Tell me about it! By the time I finished replying to the real related posts, I thought I was in another thread!
spocks quote on the outside GD's on the inside kind of looks like PCGS grading with the CAC sticker on it but why talk about coins on this thread i thought this thread was going in the right direction before
Here's what I think is sad about this guy's complaining (talking about the the original crack-out man, NOT the CT poster)... NGC said if he provided all the proof he stood a good chance of getting the original grade of MS64DPL. They did not promise, nor would any reasonable person expect them to. As it is, they upgraded him from MS63 to MS64. I can understand why he's unhappy, but "he knew the job was dangerous when he took it". It's just sour grapes, plain and simple. The dude has no case. I think what's really happening is this : In his mind... old holders are from an era when standards are "proven" to more strict this is in an old holder surely, it should upgrade Send it in ! Get rich quick ! Folly. What he fails to understand is many are thinking that way, and the old holders have been thoroughly picked over. The vast majority which are likely upgrades have been broken out - though there are still a few around, I suppose. An upgrade attempt should be based solely on the coin's merits, not what kind of holder it's in. Upgrade the coin, not the holder !
I agree upgrade the coin, not the holder.... That said there is a new player in town.... This crack out strategy may have a new pond to swim in for a while, but my guess is that it will not last very long. All I can say is look at the pictures.... If anyone knows what I am talking about, more power to you. That is all I will say, and I'm sure that last comment will leave me bloodied and ragged.
Sorry , this must be a different thread , go out & walk the dog & the whole thread changes :kewl::hail: rzage
Compare some DGS coins to NGC & PCGS. I know they haven't graded enough to make a comprehensive case for what I am about to say, but I think you might be able to crack some of the DGS coins out and get higher grades with PCGS & NGC. You can view all the coins valued over $100 in their population report. The interesting thing is you may be able to purchase DGS coins for less of a premium than major TPG's for obvious reasons. The game is changing, the mirrors are twirling, and the smoke is rising all around us......
good point , I'm gonna start looking at all the so called lesser slabs , I bought a real nice Barber Quarter in a new ANACs slab in MS-63 ,it's definately nicer then a NGC-64 I had that I took back . rzage:smile:hatch::hammer:
It remains to be seen how the market will respond to DGS, but based on the skill of the people doing their grading I think it stands a fair chance of being received favorably. NPCoin-you make some very good points!
