I've been down this road before and came up empty but I thought I'd see if I could get input on this possible HalP Penny. Not sure about the obverse varieties. My head is spinning from looking at photos. Any helf...I mean helP would be appreciated. @PaddyB
Thanks for the tag! I believe this is Obverse 6 and Reverse G - Freeman 277, which is the right one for the "F over P in Half" variation, but I am not convinced it is there. Many of the 1861 Halfpennies have pronounced serifs on the F, which almost close to make them look like a P, but the variation occurs with an overstrike rather than a wrong die for the F. I think we would need much larger and clearer (possibly cleaned up?) images of the F to be sure there was a P underneath. I have not seen a confirmed example of the F over P to compare with, so you might need to find a Bronze halfpenny variation specialist to give a view. (There are really good sites for Pennies and farthings, but I know of none yet made for the halfpenny.) Good luck!
Thanks Paddy! Here are some more photos after I cleaned her up a bit more. Managed to get some residue off and it appears the F is nearly closed and certainly curves like a P. Tough to fine graded/certified comps.
This isn’t my primary area of interest, but I agree with @PaddyB. I’m not convinced either. Clearer pictures would be very helpful. Here is an example that sold at auction back in 2014. This one seems to be pretty clear.
I found an example on collectors universe that seems to match up. It is also Obverse 6 Reverse G The "blob" on the top of the short stick of the F matches up. The two sticks don't fully connect into a P like they do in obverse 7. @PaddyB additional thoughts? Theirs: Mine: Theirs: Mine:
Certainly makes a strong case, but as before I am really not an expert on varieties. I suggest a post on predecimal.com as that is the home of discussions on GB Bronze varieties, and there are many more knowledgeable people than me on there.
Hmm - don't know why that is. It is run by just one chap so it is possible he is away for the holidays. I will raise it in their technical forum.
Thanks! I probably won't hold on to the half(p?) Penny for my own collection, but I would like a little more confirmation either way before I list it for sale. There is also the possibility of sending it off to a TPG for authentication, but I'd hate to spend the $50 or so only to have them say it isn't what I hope it is.
OK done. Link for anyone else following is: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/topic/13517-is-this-right-for-an-1861-f-over-p-halfpenny/
In looking at examples on the London Coins Auction site, it looks like the features of die pairing 6 G (as identified by PaddyB) match my coin. Nearly connected F/P with lump on middle serif. Here’s a photo of a comp from that site: Halfpenny 1861 F of HALF struck over a P Freeman dies 6+G CGS 45, the finest example seen by this cataloguer and the finest we have offered (most examples Fine or below) and consequently the Finest known and only example on the CGS Population Report, Very Rare, Ex-London Coins Auction A138 September 2012 Lot 2392, realised £600
Yes - I was just looking at the same listing. I still have a concern that London Coins are mis-listing some of these! There are some, like yours and the picture above, where there is a metal chunk almost filling the gap between the arms of the F, and there are others in their list where there is more evidence of an underlying letter. (Base of another letter showing beneath the F and a more rounded appearance to the F gap.) I suspect there maybe more than one style of this variety. There seem to be a number with your variety, but only one I have seen so far with the more obvious under letter - and that in much poorer condition... Also I am concerned that something listed as "Very Rare" seems to be turning up rather often. In the end, if you can get it into a posh auction with the F over P attribution, it looks like it would go for good money!
Here's a copied response from over at predecimal.com Needless to say, I'm quite pleased. This is one heck of a cherry pick (if accurate) from a mixed bag of old world copper. Thanks again Paddy for the help. Yes, your coin is the said F/P. It is the same die pairing as my coin, Freeman obverse 6 with reverse G. I have attached a picture of my 6+G Halp coin. I also have a Halp coin of Obverse 7+G. I have heard rumours that other die pairs of Halp coins have been reported, including Reverse E !
