Why PCGS is better than NGC

Can't tell anything from those pics.
I think for a lot of collectors, the adage doesn't apply. People buy the holder, not the coin. Kinda like cars, they all have engines, but people like the wrapper.

 

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I can see your point, messydesk. Let me clarify. So, to preface, im far and away from being an expert on Lincolns (though im learning) the coin posted, is indeed up for sale. I have no intent nor interest in buying it....i just happened to come across this one while browsing auctions. Im not doubting the technical grade of the coin....as for all intents and purposes....the detail, strength of strike, etc are on par with the numerical grade....However, what i was alluding to....is the eye appeal of the coin, which, to me, (and im aware eye appeal is subjective) is lacking. Simply stated....if i were given the option of this piece....PCGS graded....or of a coin with....to my eye...superior eye appeal....i would chose the coin...with the superior eye appeal....grading service not withstanding. Hope this clarifies.

 

Eye appeal is always an issue, and the plastic for my purchases, can't fix ugly, or lack of eye appeal.

 

The eye appeal for that coin seems average, which is in line with a grade of MS63, but it's hard to tell without better pictures. When you're going from pictures, it pays to compare with other coins sold by the same place, in this case Heritage. Study enough of their pictures and you will get a good feel for how the coins they sell should grade. The grading experiment that @physics-fan3.14 has been doing is a good example of this.

 

I have coins in PCGS and NGC slabs and i like both but I do favor NGC slab over PCGS slab

 

Anyone see this from the PCGS forums:

https://www.pcgs.com/news/security-chip-slabs

"We have partnered with HID Global to create NFC chip-embedded slabs that allow collectors to simply tap their smartphone to a coin and instantly receive the Cert Verification."

Anyone know much about the NFC Chip and if its counterfeit proof or any pros/cons of this?

 

Sure. Here’s a good summary of NFC and what it’s used for:
www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-nfc/

“if it’s counterfeit proof” do you think anybody on CT is qualified to comment on this?

 

I’d bet the premise is that the chip will have a code that will be picked up by the phone, parsed through the PCGS app, then sent to the PCGS server to confirm the code.

Since PCGS slabs are manufactured in China, the chips would instantly be copied. A chip from a genuine slab can be hacked for its code, and the app can be hacked to gain access to the database of coin-chip code pairs. And then we are right back to where we started.

The absolute best anti-counterfeiting option is to raise grading fees by $2.50 or so and have a TrueView of every single coin. (TrueViews cost $5.) The QR codes on the slabs instantly direct the user to the slab’s verification page. This would not help for MS/PF-69/70 moderns though, and the PCGS sweat shop might be slowed down a bit.

Counterfeit slabs have been a problem since 2007 and PCGS has never done anything to address the issue until now. At least NGC has been posting pictures (albeit underlit) of each coin they certify. NGC also taken steps to prevent data mining of their servers, whereas PCGS hasn’t, nor has Heritage.

 

I assume (well, I hope) that they use encryption to secure the key on the chip and that they keep secure keys for decryption locked up at PCGS, not in an app.

Since they're offering this chip on all Gold Shield holders, if there's a chip, there's a photo to go along with it. The photo helps ensure that someone doesn't crack out the coin, put a lesser one (or a fake one) in its place, and then put the chip in a fake slab.

Having a TrueView of every coin isn't necessary, but a mug shot taken immediately after the coin is slabbed would be good, and not slow things down much, if at all once the workflow is figured out.

 

TrueView is that detailed shots of the coins excluding the slab (or before they were slabbed) that we see on HA and other sites ? ANY closeup, even if in a slab, would probably work, right ?

Why wouldn't it work with moderns ?

Yes, I would pay MORE for a coin or for certification if it meant a slower, more-detailed process that led to actual pics as a counterfeit measure.

What do you mean by 'data mining' ?

 

I’d like to assume that PCGS developers are competent. We’ll see what happens.

So the vast majority of future coins won’t have this feature? This would exclude most collectors and especially those who need it most (<$1000 coins).

I agree

No. TVs are shot at PCGS before being slabbed.

Yeah

They all look the same. There would be no unique identifiers

I would too

When someone rapidly puts in inputs (cert number) to “mine” and record what outputs (coin, grade, etc) result. NGC requires knowledge of cert number and grade before you can verify a coin, and they limit the speed at which you can look up coins. PCGS and Heritage only need a cert number to get results.

 

Much harder to fake some of these type systems than is being made out to be. The slabs don't leave the factory with the chips already in them anyways. You either have to be good enough to take control of the system changing everything with no one noticing or make an identical system for your fake ones. It's not impossible, but would take significant resources and skill and not worth the cost.

This is especially true since all the coins with it for a while will all have TruViews.

It would. The only ones you would run into any possible problems would be ultramodern 70s but then you would have to have a perfect fake. It's a good innovation taking a next level step to combat counterfeits and it's good to see technology being implemented more

 

Whelp, chips sound good but after 35 years and 80 million coins already graded in multi-generational holders is there anything else left to encapsulate?

Besides the yearly modern crap mint products, at some point don't we eventually run out of "old folks" with ungraded collections, hoards, etc.

 

Not really, there's always going to be people cracking coins for albums, or cross overs which make their way back. Enormous amount of world coins left. Eventually we may get to a day of not many classic US coins left to grade, but we aren't even close to it