Question about purchase

Here is a question out to the group..... I know someone who has a really high end coin collection. Everything slabbed NGC or PCGS - mostly all high grade - MS64 or higher. They have a supurb comm collection and I have talked with them about buying some coins off of them. Many of their coins were grading MS66 and MS67.

Here is my question. They are really tight on price. If the grey sheet or Pcgs report says that MS 64 should be $200, well then the coin will sell for $200. In my "younger" days I would say yes and go about my way. But now, I don't buy like that anymore, except for the few breakdowns that I get here and there. I always look for a good deal, as we all should. I like to see some value in my coins after I buy them. Now on the flip side of things, I have only dealt with this person a few times and was turned off by the firmness on price immediately so I never really negotiated anything further.

So what are everyones thoughts on this? Should I re-establish contact with this person and try to negotiate or should I (In the words of Tony Soprano) Just Forget About It? Thanks.

 

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To me it's a no-brainer - if you believe you can negotiate a price acceptable to you, have at it. Otherwise, look elsewhere.

 

Someone who is that firm is not going to negotiate just because you recontact them at a later date. Now if the sheet says it should sell for $200 and you really like the coin, or feel it will appreciate (don't count on this with commems) buy it. If you want a good deal search further for a good deal. I can't tell you how many times I've been willing to pay full price to get a coin I had been searching for just because I had not been able to find it for so long, then again I've passed on some semi keys because they wanted full retail for a borderline coin

 

On better date/grade highenders, you will find it very dificult to buy at sheet. On other common generics, you may fish for a discount.

Only way to buy below sheet in MOST cases is to have a table at a show or a store, and wait for the walk up sellers.

 

Like on a magazine stand . . . there's multiple issues here.
One issue is whether or not you really want the coin.
Another issue is whether you juss want to get a good deal on a coin.

If you juss want a good deal, then negotiate until he starts to sweat. But if you really want the coin to fit into your collection and he refuses to budge, then you have two choices.

Buy or no buy.

You might be able to negotiate a deal when you buy more than what you originally wanted. Offer to buy a second coin of lesser value to you for a reduced price and see if that gets his attention. Then again some people juss don't want or need the money and will stand firm. :headbang: Hard to work with that kind of people.

 

Well, which one... grey sheet or PCGS ? The prices tend to be very different. It varies from coin to coin, but PCGS tends to be higher than greysheet, sometimes by quite a bit.

I doubt I have ever paid PCGS price for any coin. Way high in most cases.

Sounds like a personal thing, not just professional. I would share your feelings with the man and talk it out. If that makes progress, great. If not, find a dealer with whom you're comfortable.

There are a LOT of dealers out there.

 

greetings Joe!
you can always make a fair offer. it doesn't hurt to try, the worst he can say is no. maybe you can negotiate a deal fair for both of you.
best wishes,
steve

 

In the early '80s I was buying quite a bit and developed a relationship with a dealer in the mid-west, though we never met face-to-face. It was perfect for me. I had large want lists and limited funds. He essentially had a guaranteed buyer for good stuff of a fairly broad scope.

He bought investment stuff when there was a great deal to be had and held it a while for me to pay it off. I do not care what he made as his deals always seemed more than fair from my angle.

He bought rolls of BU Morgans and I risked a little to have many of them certified. I learned a lot in a short period of time. Took a few beatings and turned some extremely good deals.

Relationships are where good deals are born...
art

 

Jaceravone -

I kind of see a collector buying coins similar to a slightly used car purchase. I like to research what the market commands given it features. I try and separate out the emotional factors (paint color, etc.) and focus on the core value/condition. I then determine what I will pay for the car. I then try and engage the seller, talk a bit about the car, point out some concerns, and then start with a lower amount and negotiate upward to my max predetermined price. I have to be able to walk away and if I don't get my price, I do so pleasantly and respectfully. I let them know that if they change their mind about my offer, then I stand ready to do the deal. Who knows, maybe they'll contact you a few days later.

So, the above might be a poor analogy, but there are always other cars/coins of the same make/model/year on the market. The test is to be patient.

However, given all that blather, if the coin jumps out to me and seems to be special, then I will pay a premium and close the deal - never looking back.

 

The commemorative market is very weak right now, with most coins selling in auction for well under sheet. I personally would pass unless you can buy for 20 percent or so back of sheet. Granted there are exceptions.

 

Also, PCGS prices typically are very elevated.

 

Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts. I just wanted to see what the masses thought. This guy is actually a very good guy - a good Christian man. I have known him for several years. Several years ago, he tried to take me under his wing and teach me some stuff. I met with him here or there, but was always too busy to follow up with him and we haven't been able to hook up in some time. He is probably the most knowledgable coin person I know. He used to own his own shop and still has his stock available for purchase. He knows that I like comms and we met up a few times so I could look at his stuff. His items were always high graded comms... the type you would want in your collection, but he always wanted list price. I just never tried to bargin with him because I just wasn't comfortable yet, so I never purchased anything. I have been actively collecting comms again, and find myself paying some good money to acquire raw coins and I figured if I were to go after the good stuff, I should probably buy them already slabbed. But, I just better be prepaired to pay out some cash. On ebay, many times the very nice comms have been selling for over list and I definitely won't do that and the local supply is slim. So I just wanted to see what everyones thoughts were about paying list for very nice certified comms. I know most of you don't collect them, but this is what I am into and I am willing to shell out a little more for the better stuff. Ultimately, what I decide to pay is up to me, but I just wanted to get everyones thoughts. In the end though, I had some stuff come up and I don't think I will be buying much anyway..... except I will pay for shipping when Spock is ready to send me his Oregon Trail for my late birthday gift! Thanks gang! Joe

 

always negotiate the deal and get the best price possible. TH elast time i checked i didnt own the oregon trail or any other trails there are freeway these days. We still have GD here (and also me) so how can he be the most knowledgeable

 

I agree on the market being weak. However, I do not see any future interest in it. There are the classics but I feel as more and more people join the hobby, very few if none are into the older commemoratives. It seems our hobby is taking a path that none of us want to see .

 

Now here is something to think about. And no one appears to mention this either. Just how well do you know this person? How many times do you get together with him and are there also many or even some common aquantences. Possibly even a relative's friend?
I mention all this because if you pay what he is asking there is just to much of a chance that you will eventually feel cheated and so goes that friendship. If you haggle the price and get him down, he may start feeling the same way and again, so goes that friendship. In either instance if he or you starts telling others of how you got taken or how you chewed him down, more friends down the drain.
When it comes to buying or selling anything to someone you know, beware the end results. I've seen to many people end up as almost enemies due to some stupid transaction.

 

Carl - that is some very good advice.

 

Depending on the quality and eye-appeal (or lack thereof) of the coins, buying them at "graysheet" could be a very good deal or a bad deal, though you didn't mention whether it would be at 'bid" or "ask". In many cases, as a dealer, I'd be thrilled to buy at those levels, but in other instances I would pass.

It concerns me somewhat that you lumped "graysheet" and the "PCGS Report" (I'm guessing you mean the PCGS Price Guide) together, as prices can vary quite a bit between the two. It also sounds as if you group coins and prices together, automatically, and don't fully take into consideration how different the quality and appeal can be between two examples of the same grade. It sounds to me as if you should learn more, before spending your money in the fashion you outlined in your post.

 

I disagree. Buyers who behave that way quickly get a reputation for doing so. And sellers will often offer their better coins elsewhere first and/or even jack up the prices to such buyers in anticipation of negotiations. I often pay a bit more than I might be able to buy the coins for if I were to play hardball. But it's worth it to keep the sellers wanting to do business with me and offering me coins I might not otherwise have a chance at.

 

Hey Mark thanks for your comments. You were the second person that brought up lumping both the Grey Sheet and PCGS Price Gude together. (and btw, I did mean PCGS Price Guide) In my original statement, my intention was not to lump them together, but rather use each one as an individual example. My example being a MS 64 coin for $200, doesn't matter from which guide. The point being. If it said MS 64 on the slab, that was the price that it was being offered for based on EITHER the Grey Sheet OR PCGS PG pricing for that coin. The bottom line is, I know they say to buy the coin and not the slab, and I have enough experience to tell the difference between a AU comm and UNC comm, the problem is between an MS64 and MS65 or MS63 and MS64. So the only thing I can rely on is the grade on the slab. How can I argue that I won't pay MS65 prices because I think the coin is a MS64. I can't - so either I buy the coin at the grade that is assigned or I don't buy it at all and I have chosen not to buy at all.

Did anyone ever have one of those threads that they immediately regretted posting. Well this is one of them. I already knew the answer to my question, but I guess I was just wanted to vent that day and posted the question to see what everyone's response would be in general. Next time I just need to suck it up. :headbang: I am friends with this guy. I just saw him today. He is a great guy, but maybe Carl has the right idea....

 

I don't see any reason to regret starting the thread

By the way, what would the price to you be where there is a large difference in the listed price between the "Graysheet" and the PCGS Price Guide ?