Official 2008 ANA Summer Seminar Thread

There are chaperones for the YNs - somewhere around one chaperone for every 3 YNs - so I wouldn't use the term "roam". I don't want to speak for the ANA but I am sure you are given a certain amount of freedom to do things on your own time. Plus there are many tours and side trips offered during each session - things like Cog Rail Trip to top of Pikes Peak and walking tour of Garden of the Gods.

 

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Ben, they do this aslready.

These courses are held in conjunction with the ANA coin shows each year. Additionally, they have a program where coin clubs can request a presentation from the ANA (something like you suggested). The coin club covers the fee the ANA charges for it and the presentations are apparently pretty good.

 

So they are in the same town where the ANA coin shows are held at? Pretty cool never-the-less, I hadn't heard of it deing done before. :thumb:

 

Hobo - You mentioned taking the basic course last year. Did you find the basic course worth your time/money? Seems like you are really getting dunked in the intermediate course and I'm wondering if that would be a better starting point that I want to consider if I follow your path.

 

I highly, highly recommend taking the basic grading course. There are quite a few things covered in that course that you really need to know before taking the intermediate grading course. There were a few people in my intermediate class that maybe should have been in the basic class. I think ANA is going to implement some prerequisites for some future courses so valuable class time is not wasted explaining basic concepts in an advanced (or intermediate) course.

Below are just some of the things you need to know or understand before taking Intermediate Grading:

Basic grading techniques.
What luster is, what causes it and how to spot it.
The difference between mint state and circulated.
The difference between a business strike and a proof coin.
The difference between a scratch, a die crack and die polish marks.
Planchet defects and strike-throughs.
The difference between die doubling and strike doubling.
The difference between a weak strike and wear.

 

Hobo - thank you for the details. I am persuaded to start out with the basic class when I can afford to take the time off!

 

I finally have time to report on the activities of Thursday and Friday. Dang, I've been busy!

Thursday

The last day of class. We looked another box of 27 coins. These were all gold coins. Gold coins can be the most difficult to grade, especially $2 1/2 & $5 Indians. Afterward we had a review and had a Q&A period. We graded one last box of 27 coins to test our newly-learned grading skills and received our certificates. I truly feel that I learned a LOT in this course and am a much better grader. But I will need to look at lots and lots of coins so I can learn to convert that grading knowledge into grading ability. (I worked on that for a few hours at the local coin show Friday and Saturday.)

After class was over I went over to the ANA Bookstore where I found 13 ANA educational DVDs that I couldn't live without. I also bought a set of 3 Washington Quarter variety attribution books (and I don't even collect Wash quarters). At $10 per book (regular price $40 each) that's a bargain I can't pass up.

Later I attended a reception where I mingled with students, instructors and staff. I got to speak one-on-one with Larry Shepherd (the new ANA Executive Director) and I must say that I feel very good about having him in that position.

The banquet food was excellent as usual. (I had the salmon.) All the instructors, speakers, volunteers, chaperones, YNs, etc. were honored or recognized. Larry Shepherd spoke about what lies ahead for the ANA. Bill Fivaz was awarded an Honorary Doctor of Numismatics degree (one of only a handful that have been issued by the ANA from what I was told). In his acceptance speech the emotion was evident in his voice. He said his father had been a doctor and had wanted him to be a doctor. And now he was one. He was truly touched. When the banquet was over I shook his hand to congratulate him and said, "Should I call you Dr. Bill?" He said (his voice cracking), "That's what my dad was called."

After the banquet I hung around a bull session until way too late. 4 hours sleep - again.

Friday - Denver Mint Tour

I was back at ANA just after 7 AM to get on the bus to go tour the Denver Mint. There were close to 40 of us on the tour. I had not been to the Mint since 1999 when I took the public tour. In 1994 or 1995 I got a private tour down on the production floor (thanks to someone at ANA pulling a few strings for me) but I had forgotten most of what I saw.

On the drive up we were warned about what not to take into the Mint. No coins, cameras, cell phones, knives, etc. No open toed shoes. (One female YN was denied access for wearing sandals.) Unfortunately, one person was also denied access because her name was not on the list (and the Mint Police had not been able to do a background check on her).

Getting into the Mint is tough but getting out is MUCH tougher. (More about that later.) No one - including employees - is allowed to take a coin out of the Mint. Entering the Mint there is a metal detector (that I somehow bypassed) and a turnstile that you must be buzzed through. Once inside we gathered in a room around a large table. We got a brief history of the Mint and had a Q&A period. I asked if the Denver Mint was experimenting with any new metals for cents and nickels. The answer was the Mint has not been authorized to strike any coins in any new metals but they have been experimenting with other metals by striking things other than coins. I found that interesting.

After we were divided into groups and were issued safety glasses and ear protection the tour began. Our first stop was the collector coin room. We saw the presses used to make collector coins (e.g., coins for Mint Sets) as well as the packaging operation.

Next we saw several coining presses spewing out cents. I watched the press operator as he inspected coins (using a loupe) in each hopper before releasing them onto a conveyor. The Denver Mint is really into quality. They want to keep the release of problem coins and errors to a minimum.

We stopped outside a room where a woman brought out Arizona quarter dies for us to see (but not to touch or hold). She talked about die life (I think it was 150,000 to 300,000 strikes for quarter reverse dies depending on the design) and die problems. It seems the designs with a scroll have problems with die chips in the scroll (so now you know where to look when you search state quarters for errors). She said one die (I think it was a dollar die - I couldn't hear well due to noise) lasted 5,000,000 strikes. (I need to check that out and see if I heard that right. That sounds awfully high.)

Next we saw several rolls of coin stock, mainly nickel and dime stock. We saw a roll of nickel stock going into a machine that takes the bend out of the stock. Next we saw a blanking machine making dime blanks. The tour guide let us hold and inspect several dime blanks. He also grabbed a handful of bow ties for us to inspect. Bow ties are small pieces of the coin stock that are left after the blanking process and they look exactly like a tiny bow tie. I wanted one for a souvenier but decided it was not worth a prison sentence.

Next we saw the upsetting machine (really not much to see) and got to hold and inspect some dime planchets (with raised rims). We got to compare a blank to a planchet.

Next we saw the annealing machine, the cooling bath, the wash and the drying machine. We got to look into the room where dollar coins are made but were not allowed in there. We were told that the Mint is very sensitive about dollar coins being released without edge lettering and they don't want anything to go wrong with that two-step process. So No Tourists Allowed!

We watched freshly-minted dimes falling out of a press into a hopper. The tour guide grabbed some for us to hold. These dimes were so fresh they were still warm!

Down below we saw where coins are carefully counted and weighed and bagged in huge Kevlar bags. (Gone are the days of canvas bags.) We saw a forklift moving pallet after pallet with these huge bags of coins. We saw the machine that burnishes and applies the coating on the dollar coin planchets (can't recall the name of the machine) but it was not in operation at the time.

We got to peek into the die room but there was really not much to see. I didn't see any activity at all. That's not surprising because die making is not a round-the-clock operation.

By the way, the Denver Mint operates 24 hours a day, 5 days a week.

One interesting thing I noticed on each coining press was a poster of the coin being produced with areas circled and enlarged. Apparently these are the areas of coins where die problems develop first and where the press operator is to inspect sample coins from each hopper full. I wish I could have taken a picture of these posters so I would know where to look for errors but NO CAMERAS ALLOWED IN THE MINT! Oh, well.

I think that was about it. We turned in our safety glasses and got in line to be searched on our way out. Much like going through airport security, we placed our shoes and anything metal into a tray to be X-Rayed. A handful of people had coins that they somehow had brought into the Mint and could not take out. The tour guide instructed them to deposit the coins in the Mint's "Donation Box". (She told us employees sometimes have to "donate" coins they inadvertently bring into the Mint. She told us about one employee that recently bought a Mint Set at the gift shop outside and mistakenly brought it into the Mint. That's right - he had to put it in the Donation Box.)

No one in our group got caught trying to sneek anything out of the Mint. We got to spend a little time in the gift shop. (The last time I visited the Mint in 1999 the gift shop was inside the Mint building on the West side conveniently located right where the tour ends. Imagine that! Now it is in a modular building outside the Mint on Mint property on the East side. I asked a Mint cop about this and he said after 9/11 the Mint did not want the public entering the Mint building without going through a background check so they moved the gift shop to a building outside the Mint.)

We had a nice drive back to Colorado Springs and had a good bag lunch. (We were also given breakfast on the way up.) This was an excellent tour and I would highly recommend it to everyone. I plan to do this tour every few years.

After returning to Colorado Springs I went over the the local coin show that coincides with Summer Seminar. There were a good many dealers but not a lot of attendees. I hit several dealer tables and put my new grading skills to the test. I didn't find anything to cherrypick so I didn't buy a thing.

Friday night I got more sleep than I had gotten in 10 days - 7 hours.

 

Saturday

I didn't really need to go to Registration today for Session II (because I registered last Saturday) but I decided to go anyway for a free lunch and to meet whoever may be there. I met a few new people who have never attended Summer Seminar. I even gave one guy a ride to the coin show.

I was able to resist the urge to buy coins at the coin show on Friday but succombed on Saturday. I left only $210 lighter. All the coins I bought were raw. I picked up a very nice MS-64 1952-S/S/S Washington quarter and a nice 1962 MS-63 Washington quarter DDO. (See! Those Washington quarter books are coming in handy already!)

I got a good looking MS-63 1936 Buffalo nickel, a VG 1868 Shield Nickel variety with a broken letter (the 'C' in CENTS) and an AU-53 1912 Liberty Nickel with very attractive reverse toning.

At one dealer's bargain bin I got an unattributed ancient, an anciet labled Judea BC 103-76 Yehonatan, a 1933 Checkoslovakia coin with a cool lion on the obverse and an artistic '25' on the reverse and a Mexico 1753 MoM 1/2 Real (Pillar Type). All half price.

My last purchase was what appears to be an original Hobo nickel on a 1913 Type II Buffalo nickel. The hat and collar are very crude but the hair and beard are somewhat nicely detailed. The fields have been dressed (which is not particularly common on a Below Average Hobo nickel - the grade it appears to be). Oddly there is no ear on this Hobo. I will need to study this Hobo some more before I decide whether it is original or modern. For the price I paid I won't be hurt too bad if it is a modern.

A dealer buddy told me he thought he spotted a counterfeit that was being sold as genuine. I looked at it and I am almost certain it is a cast fake but I didn't get to look at it long because my phone rang. The coin is priced at well over $2,000 because it is purported to be a mid-1790s silver coin. I am staying out of this one.

Night, night.

 

I'm bumping this so that Hobo's fine report can be viewed.

I had every intention of going to Summer Seminar this year, but am in the process of closing on a house. I hope everyone out there had (or is having) a good time.

 

Bruce,
Your daily diary was awesome. What a fantastic opportunity. I considered going this year, but with only 10 days off a year, I have to be picky. I really enjoyed reading your story about the tour of the mint. I am a visual person, so you could tell me a million times how a coin is produced, but if I don't see it, I have a hard time really grasping it. I also found your grading class story very interesting. Repetition, Repetition, Repetition...... Reminds me of this one time, at coin camp......:mouth: (For all you American Pie fans)

 

Sunday 6/29/08

The Session II ANA Book Sale was this morning. I arrived very early and was first in line but found out that the #1 spot was auctioned off at Orientation the day before. I was #2 and #1 apparently grabbed the good stuff before I was allowed in. It was semi-slim pickings but I did pick up a number of books. One is titled The Neighborhood Mint and is about the Dahlonega Mint. I grew up in GA and the Dahlonega Mint holds a special interest for me.

Session II classes began at 1 PM. My Digital Photography course looks like it may be a bit more basic than I had hoped but I think I will pick up enough good tips to make it worthwhile. Our class of 11 includes complete photography novices, a semi-professional coin photographer and everything in between. I think it's a good mix and I like the instructor.

After class I attended an art exhibit where some ANA members displayed their works. I thought there was going to be a display of coins or paper made from dies made in a Session I engraving class but I didn't find it if it existed. To be honest I didn't make it much past the wine station and a Hobo carver named Joe Paonessa who claims to be "The World's Greatest Left-Handed Hobo Nickel Carver". Joe's work is very good and I bought one of his nickels. I happened to have 5 Hobo nickels in my pocket so I showed him the better ones. He thought I made out very well on my Crude Hobo and also thought I got a bargain on the Hobo I bought yesterday (which I think is a Below Average but he thought may be Average). He really liked my modern Hobo carved by Owen Covert. (He said he may be distantly related to Owen. Imagine having 2 Hobo nickel carvers in the same family.)

I met a guy today that happens to be in my photography course. He is Retired Navy. He was in a car accident several years ago and is 100% disabled. He can walk only a few steps and uses a motorized wheelchair. Our photography class had to be moved to accomodate him. (The funny thing is I followed him to class and he led me to the location the class was moved from. He had no problem going to the location that had to be changed to accomodate him.)

Hearing his life story it appears that if he didn't have bad luck he wouldn't have any luck at all. He suffers from the effects of Agent Orange. He has been the victim of identity theft. He is diasbled from the car accident and requires 4 hours of in-home care every day. A few years ago he discovered coin collecting and has immersed himself in the hobby. Recently his care giver stole a box of coins (valued at 6 figures) he had packaged ready to send to ICG. Two weeks later his home was burglarized and more coins were stolen. (Think these cases are related? The care giver, her boyfriend and the coin dealer who bought the stolen coins have been arrested.)

He told me he suffers from depression has not left his home in 11 years. I can understand why. He left his home for the first time to come to Summer Seminar. He was here last week taking Basic Grading and totally enjoyed it. When we were talking about coins before class I noticed a sparkle in his eye where before there had been only sadness. I told him that coin collecting seems to be excellent therapy for him. I think his experience at Summer Seminar would make a great human interest story and I plan to recommend an article be written featuring him in the Numismatist.

 

Monday

We pulled out our cameras and started shooting away. The instructor said he plans to collect our data cards at the end of the course and compare our first shots to those at the end of the course to show our progress.

I immediately learned the cheap copy stand I bought is completely inadequate for my camera. It is too short for my camera and lens and it is not nearly stable enough. I didn't even attempt to use it so I loaned it to another student with a lightweight point-and-shoot camera. I used a very nice copy stand that belongs to the ANA and it worked great.

I got decent coin photos right out of the chute. I played around with lighting and focus and got better results but still not excellent. A roving instructor came around and had me shoot a Byzantine hammered gold coin that is very cupped (1/2" or more). The object was to 1) get the design in focus (in the bottom of the "cup") as well as the outer portions of the flan that are much higher and 2) properly light the coin so there was little or not glare or shadows. This was a challenging coin to shoot but I got decent results (after a while). The trick on this coin is to have a LOT of depth of field and to focus between the upper edge and the lower recesses of the coin so everything will be in focus.

I spent a good bit of time showing another student how to operate her brand new Nikon D-200 (bought before coming to the course). It is similar enough to my D-300 that I was able to show her the basic settings and controls. Another student has a D-70S. All the other student's cameras are point-and-shoot models, most of which are giving good results but one or two are not well suited to coin photography.

For the next 3 days Doug Mudd (ANA Museum Director) will spend an hour or so teaching us how to use PhotoShop to manipulate our photos. I am looking forward to this.

A word about the instructor. Tom Mulvaney takes photos of coins for auction catalogs as well as books. He has photographed some rare and famous coins. The US Mint asked him to photograph the 10 1933 Double Eagles that were confiscated and stored in Fort Knox. That's quite an impressive resume and I am honored to learn from him.

 

Bruce
Excellent reading, and you make a great ANA ambassador as well. I will eventually get to those seminars, just was not in the cards this year.

Bonedigger, the ANA show here in Phoenix had a great YN thing going, and yes, they have it at every show twice a year as it travels the USA.

 

The intent I'm trying to convey is to have the ANA have seminars someplace else/apart form where they are having their Annual Coin show. Someplace like Boise Id, or Fargo, ND, away from the usual haunts and predicted patterns.

It's great they are having such seminars but the point I'm trying to make is to get away from the large urban areas and focus on parts of the country which haven't been covered. Perhaps the ANA needs a youth seminar planner to show and track the locations each of these seminars was (and will be) held over the years.

Saturation of the same places over and over does not spread the word real well with kids who for example collect in Cody, Wy, etc.

Take Care
Ben

 

Not to belabor the point but they already DO this. All you have to do is request it and pay the fee.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but Cody, Wy doesn't strike me as a coin collecting hotbed, it doesn't really make financial sense to have one there when it has poor attendence even in urban areas with much large collecting communities.

 

Tuesday

Snap. Snap. Snap. There was a whole lotta picture taking goin' on this morning. Later the instructor displayed a few photos of coins from one student and manipulted them using his photo editing software (MS PhotoDraw). Let me be very clear - manipulating photos of coins as we are learning to do is NOT intended for coins that are going to be sold on eBay or any other venue. Obviously, when you are selling a coin you need to have a photo that accurately depicts the coin.

We did not learn how to use PhotoDraw. Rather, we saw the capabilities of photo editing software. I have PhotoShop Elements (a stripped down version of PhotoShop) but I don't know how to use it (except for some very, very basic things I use it for in my business).

Doug Mudd (ANA Museum Curator) spent the entire afternoon demonstrating how to use PhotoShop to manipulate coin photos. Wow! He is an expert using PhotoShop. He agreed to come back and spend the entire afternoon with us again tomorrow. I should have a much better understanding of how to use PhotoShop Elements after tomorrow.

The student with the Nikon D-200 came to class today with a $300 Canon that the instructor uses. She decided the D-200 was way too much camera for her needs. All she is going to do with a camera is take photos of coins to sell on eBay. (2,500 coins a month)

A student (who took the course 2 or 3 years ago and is taking it again to pick up some more tips) shared a simple way to bring out the cameo effect of a proof coin. Below is my first attempt at this using my Proof 1882 Seated Liberty Half Dollar. I am very pleased with the cameo effect (but I need to work on making the rest of the coin look better).

On a side note, I spoke with the editor for the ANA's magazine (Numismatist) about the guy in my Digital Photography course (the guy in the wheelchair who found a cure for his depression through coins and coming to ANA Summer Seminar). I suggested they include his story in a future issue and she agreed it would make a good human interest story. She is sending a photographer to our class (our Digital Photography course - how ironic) to get some pics of him. I'm kind of excited about this and I think it will be a huge boost for this guy's well-being.

A couple of students in my class went on the Pikes Peak tour yesterday. They took the Cog Rail to the top and saw lots of wildlife - a herd of elk, several mule deer, a couple dozen bighorn sheep, marmots, etc. Visibility was excellent. If you have never taken the Cog Rail to the top of Pikes Peak it is a must-do if you are ever in the area. Today's tour was a trip to Coors Field in Denver to see the Rockies. They got to see Aaron Cook blank the Padres in a game that lasted less than 2 hours.

Tomorrow is the YN Auction II. I'm looking forward to that.

 

WOW!!! I LOVE that coin! If you ever get tired of it feel free to send it to me for safe keeping!

Joking aside---you did a great job showing the detail and also with the CAMEO.

Speedy

 

No worries, this is a discussion forum. The point which I'm trying to make is somewhat different, the ANA needs to take the initiative and go when and where they aren't necessarily paid to attend. Hit the area with a local NewsPaper advertisement campaign and send the instructor or maybe even solicit a COMPETENT local collector who would be willing to hold the seminar for them.

"Cody, Wy doesn't strike me as a coin collecting hotbed" -- Many might say the same thing about Iola, Wi but that's not the case. Perhaps there is another budding Chet Krause just looking for such an opportunity in Cody. One will never know unless one goes there and FWIW, there is a large Scouting presence there and lots of RICH (and I mean wealthy) Farming families too... One will never know until they try.

The ANA doesn't need to be compensated for every action they perform, especially those actions when they are introducing new collectors to the hobby. Additionally one has to spend some money inorder to get (more members) and money.


Take Care
Ben

 

Yep, it's been mentioned earlier on another thread.

Ben