1872 and 1877 IHC's - Give me your opinion!

Hey Coin Talk Folks,

Here is a nice (I believe AU-58 RB) 1872 IHC that I purchased from the elderly Gentleman that sold me all of the nice coins. Also, a fair (I believe VF details, Net F-12) 1877 IHC that still belongs to the Gentleman but I am trying to seel for him. I had both coins check by three different Coin Dealers, one of which is an expert on coins. Two of the Coin Dealers checked the diagnostics and although they believe that they are probably genuine, they would not purchase either until they come back from a TPG. The Coin Dealer that is an expert stated that he believes that they are genuine but due to their' rarity, I should go ahead an had them certified and graded. He recommended ANACS for both due to the porousity of the 1877 which apparently spent some time in the ground and the 1872 for what he believes was an old cleaning. I an understand the 1877 but I can see no evidence of cleaning on the 1872. In fact, if someone had not apparently stuck their' damn big thumb or other finger on it, then it would be a true Red instead of Red/Brown!

Let me know what you think about the grades, authenticity and which TPG or TPG's I should send them. Please note that the 1872 IHC is near that color but that the color is a little off due to the lighting situation I have for taking pictures. Also, the second "7" in the Date on the 1877, looks a little funny but this appears due to the corrosion eating away a portion of the top of the digit.


Thanks...Frank

 

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I suppose he recommended ANACS because he feels these are both "problem" coins, and ANACS will slab 'em anyway with a notation about the problem status.

So will NCS / NGC. Consider them as well. The advantage is that NCS will pass them over to NGC if they pass muster, but I don't think either of these will for the reasons above.

 

The 72' is amazing !!!

Yeah, I would get that 77' to ANACS before I tried anything with it. Looks strong VF details, but yeah, may have been a dig coin, who knows. If genuine, ANACS will slab and net it. PCGS will for $100 these days as well, but no net grade, just "genuine".

WOW, that 72 is nice !!!

 

Jack,

I told you that the 1872 was nice! I will definitely send them in for authentication and grade but I am concerned about sending the 1872 to ANACS! I know that PCGS gives higher (Market) grades for certain coins due to their' rarity and demand but will ANACS do the same. Although the coin IMHO is an AU-58 RB, I would hope for a MS-61 RB or MS-62 RB Market Grade!

Does anyone know the POP on the 1872 in grades from AU-58 and above?


Frank

 

Au-58-br....39
60............1
61............4
62............15
63............27

Au-58-rb.........0
60/61..............0
62..................18
63...................83

 

I would say a solid AU58 - not sure why the dealers needed them slabbed, not blaming them or anything. I would use ANAC's. To me the 1872 the only thing I see is the cheek and eyebrow with a little wear, can't tell about the color. As it is it might still rate a low ms grade. Very nice coin.

 

I'd have to say XF on the 72. There seems to be a lot of wear on the tips of the headdress feathers, and only a slight partial of one diamond showing. If the obverse looked as nice as the reverse, I'd say AU or better.
Guy~

 

Send them to NCS. If the 72 has not been cleaned, they will forward it to NGC for grading. No extra cost and it will be graded either way.

 

Well in this case I can see four diamonds, but the tips of the headdress feathers looks like a weakstrike to me. I could be wrong, but the only real notice shift in the surface I see is the cheek and the eyebrow. Tough to grade by pictures but that is what I see. I am willing to bet it looks better in person in this case. Just my humble little opinion.

 

I'd say AU-58- on the '72 , probably a week strike for lack of diamonds & ends of feathers , nice coins .
rzage

 

That 72 is smoooookin!

 

My personal opinion from the photos is that the 1877 is genuine. I would personally send the coin to ICG, as the anacs graders recently went there and vice versa. I prefer the authentication abilities of the current ICG graders over the ones currently at anacs.

 

zaneman,

This is a question for you as well as the other C.T. members. I have examined the 1872 IHC real well and can see nor find any evidence of cleaning. However, it does have some candy or something stuck to a few areas of the Reverse. Also, the 1877 IHC may be now in the same condition that it was when it came out of the ground. Considering these facts and opinions, would it be reasonable that I could send the coins into NCS for conservation and ask that they be sent over to NGC, if they meet the muster that NGC requires? I don't want to risk having them bodybagged...especially if I sent them to PCGS!


Frank

 

nice color on the 72

 

Frank,
If you send coins to NCS you do not need to request that they flip the coins over to NGC. If they feel the coin is problem free enough to grade they will automatically send it over to NGC. The 1877 they will definitely call corroded, and I personally think more times then not they would call the 1872 environmentally damaged due to the candy stuck to the reverse.

I would try to soak the coin in some cold water and see if perhaps the candy will flake off the surface. This however may expose a brighter spot where the candy was. Acetone applied with a q-tip may also remove the candy, although it can potentially give the coin a purplish tinge, but I find that much more often than not it does not affect the color of copper that is mostly brown. To apply dunk the tip of a q-tip and basically allow the weight of the q-tip to be the only force applied to the surface in order to prevent hairlines, and then rinse thouroughly. As I mentioned before, you run a slight risk of changing the color, but you also remove environmental damage, which has the potential to further degrade and corrode the surface of the coin. There's also no guarantee of course that either of these will remove the crud.

It is also my opinion that based on the photos that the 1872 will not be called cleaned.

Good luck, and if you have any questions please feel free to ask.

 

The 1872 is very nice. The 1877 shows nice details, full liberty, feathers and maybe a diamond or two. The pitting takes a little from it, however nice coin also. Send the 77 to ANACS.

 

Hi Frank!
congratulations on getting the collection!! Both nice coins! thank you for sharing them. you may want to consider sending both to ngc. it might be more cost effective and if you are an ana member, you can get submission forms for ngc. once again thank you for sharing and congrats on the finds!
best wishes,
steve

 

Thanks everyone for the comments, kudos and help! As I read through the posts, I believe the consensus is that the 1877 should go to ANACS. I am thinking that the consensus from everyone is for the 1872 to go to NGC or to NCS which will send it over to NGC if there are no problems. Now my question is, if all traces of the candy on the Reverse can be removed without affecting the overall look, quality and condition of the coin which I believe is uncleaned, couldn't it be sent to PCGS instead, in hopes of a Market Grade? I would really like to get a Market Grade on the coin like AZ Jack received on some of his' Lincoln Cents! Does anyone know whether NGC does the same on Key Date and high in demand coins?


Frank

 

I question the 1877 as the second 7 is well out of place.

The1872 appears to be a candidate for NCS/NGC.

Good luck on the coins.