1909-s vdb

Hey guys. I was just wondering what you think about this 1909-s vdb. I haven't purchased it and it is in a problem free PCI slab. It appears to have a very "weak" v. Is this from a grease-filled die? Any other concerns with this coin?

Thanks,
John

 

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Can't be sure from photos. Can you get a better view of the 1909 S
Since this is not your coin, if it were my money I would stay clear as this looks like a counterfeit as shown on the S Mint mark. This is not to mention the V.D.B. on the reverse.

 

Really? It is in a PCI slab, but this is as close of pictures that I can get.
What makes you think it is fake?

 

First the S does not appear to have a die mark behind the upper serrif. Second PCI is not one of the third party graders with a good track record. I do not think PCI stands behind the authenticity of a coin especially now they are out of business. Their business practices were shody at best.

 

If you are bidding on this coin, I would be concerned. This coin considering it's cost in the grade shown will be money risked. This coin should only be purchased with a known grade and authenticity from one of the three primary grading companies. PCGS,NGC, ANACS or ICG. You can also look into purchasing this coin from a reputable dealer with a guarantee. But IMO this is a coin in a very risky list. This coin emulated a Obverse Die 4 which is the most common and easy to counterfeit.

 

I'm not sure how PCI is with counterfeit detection, and the pics aren't good enough for me to really tell. Is there return policy?

Phoenix

 

Something just doesnt look right to me. From what I can tell, the mintmark has a dark ring around it which throws up a flag for me and just the entire look of the rest of the coin is questionable. Its alot of money thrown away if your not careful with these coins.

 

I'll agree with the gang. MM way too far to the right, I cannot see the shape, but that alone is enough.

 

Thanks guys. Yes there is a return policy, but its no biggie as I haven't even bid on it. So the simple fix is this, "I won't". I appreciate the warning. I recently purchased a very nice NGC XF-45 svdb, but I ended up sending it back since it had some questionable green material that looked like PVC. I was sad to see it go, but it's not worth taking the risk with these coins. So I appreciate your scrutiny, and may be posting others for comments.

Ideally, I would like to see it in hand first, but this is hard since I don't have much availability around here. I thought PCI was a decent company, but I'll take your word on it. Not worth the risk. I made a list of "must haves" for this purchase. SO my requirements are this:
1. NGC, PCGS or ANACS
2. BIG PICTURES
3. VF-30 or higher
4. Full refund policy
5. No sign of problems or questionable green residue

btw, the 09svdb is the only one I need to complete my set, which is why I have a strong drive to get it.

thanks,
John

 

A lot of these are altered coins , I'd stay away just to be cautious , stick to one of the top 3 TPGs . JMO
rzage

 

Very smart decision , in the long run you'll be happy you did .:smile:hatch::hammer:
rzage

 

sorry, accidental repost.

 

I was wondering what you guys thought about this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-S-VDB-RARE...ryZ39456QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
IMO it is priced too high, so I'm not considering it(unless I send a low offer), but just based on the quality for the grade. I see a few tiny green specs on the reverse, but a rather nice looking coin otherwise. What do you think about the green? It looks similar to the one I had(except not quite as much), in which my dealer friend told me looked like PVC. I see this so often on these old slabbed Lincolns though, that it makes me wonder.

 

Do you have a reputable coin store near you? Prices there might be a little better. Or ask the Lincoln Cent Guru's here where to buy one. Try Arizona Jack, he has integrity.

 

If you are going to try to out grade the professionals, I would strongly suggest you do it in person rather than by pictures. Those graders get paid a bunch to do what they do with the coin in hand. I guarantee they can see a lot more (both good and bad) with the coin in hand than all of us put together can see in a picture.

 

Nice problem free coin , NGC certified , I'd go for it .
rzage

 

One bit of advice! Don't skip looking at PCI. While I do suggest that you make sure that there are good pic's and a return time table, I also think that PCI is over looked alot and in most cases there are some great coins in their slabs. From what I've seen I would trust them on if a coin is fake or not. My S VDB is slabbed by PCI and it would cross over easy at NGC at the same grade or one notch higher.

While PCI may not be in the top 3 I would say that with the way ANACS and ICG have been going...they would be running right in line with those.

Speedy

 

Yeah, that is what I originally thought of PCI too speedy until lots of people here downplayed them. I mainly want the grading service for authentication in the case of the svdb, and to point out potential problems. The XF-45 NGC one I recently purchased and sent back because of PVC contamination(the dealer thought so too), so I'm trying to rely on my eyes and experience from other members here to make a sound decision of the coins quality regardless of the slab. If I can get the same quality coin in a lower tier slab for cheaper, I'm fine with that, as long as they get the authentication/problem free designation right. However, if PCI has been known to slab fakes, I'm steering clear.

 

Johnny,
All grading services have slabbed fake coins. NGC, and PCGS right along there with them. The only differents is that not many people talk about it.
I check out all kinds of slabs....even a dead clock is right twice a day.
Just because a few of the guys here downplayed PCI don't worry about it. Yes you do need to know how to grade, and you do need to know your coin. But IF you can grade yourself, and IF you can check out the coin for such things has added mintmark, etc....then I wouldn't have a problem if you bought it in an SGS slab.

While I don't think it is the case this time---but most of the time the people who downplay a grading company either don't know how to grade so they get burned, or they KNOW how to grade and they KNOW their coins so they are getting great deals through these other grading companies and they don't want others finding out.

Speedy

 

Johnny:
I agree with Speedy about PCI.
They are better than they are given credit for.
I recently was able to pick up a bunch of 1995 DDO's in MS-65 (their grade). They are at least equal to the NGC & PCGS ones tht I already had, and they were far cheaper.

I do believe that I would avoid them for modern high grade (junk) coins. They may have hurt themselves with the MS-69 & MS-70's.
But, for others, they seem to be good.

I also have an 1894 Barber Dime in XF that could cross over to any label at the same grade. As Dave Bowers always says: "Buy the coin not the holder."
(Or something like that.)