PCGS Grading Experience.

I recently submitted Saints to PCGS(all had been cracked out from both PCGS and NGC slabs.) This is my first experience in trying to get upgrades for my coins. I have tried sending them in holders before and they always came back the same grade. I was very dissapointed when I got my grades emailed to me. In particular, I submitted a 1907 MS65 NGC Saint that I thought would have been a solid MS66. To my dismay, it graded an MS64. I have seen many PCGS MS65's with many more hits and don't even look nearly as nice as this particular coin. On the other hand I did get some upgrades on some of the more common dated saints MS64-MS65 that were not nearly as nice as this coin. I wonder if PCGS may be more strict with better date coins than common date ones. Also, I did submit the coins in plastic flips. Perhaps they picked up some slide marks in transist to PCGS. I've only been collecting for about two years now and really don't want to make the same mistake again. For those of you who don't know, it's very painful to have your coins downgraded especially a coin like this that is now worth about half what it was before I submitted it.

 

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I suspect, from what you've written, that you are underestimating the influence luster can have on a grade. Respectfully...Mike

 

I have heard of people resubmitting the same coin up to 20 times. This could actually be cost effective if you were submitting a lot of coins anyways.

Send it back...

Also their is always a risk / reward with cracking coins... Obviously the reward has to be well worth the associated risk, and you have to be willing to assume he consequence of the risk if the reward is not obtained.

I wonder why they thought your premium quality 65 was a 64?

 

Which is furtherance of my assertion, buy the coin, not the TPG. I couldn't care less what the plastic says, all that matters is what I think.

 

coins can also get wear and marks during transit if not packed properly. Also PCGS is notorious for their inconsistency

 

Well spoken. :thumb:

Ben

 

This whole grading game by the TPG'S is a crap-shoot. You never know what's going to happen. Inconsistantcy is the only consistancy.

 

lol well said its a game especially for those coins where one grade point swing is worth a few thousands

 

PCGS is very inconsistent, and the same coin if you resubmitted could very well grade a MS-66. But, it really depends on the coin. What I've experienced, is the TPG's are a little more "generous" with the key dates, and will sometimes bump them a grade or two. But, it really depends on the coin, IMHO. How is the luster on the coin, and the strike?

Phoenix

 

See this thread on the same subject:

http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=38369

And please do render opin, they are being solicited and accounted for.

 

there u r long time no see

 

I think NGC is grading much better than PCGS at present. But, yes, both grading services are much tougher on better date gold than on generic gold.

One must remember that inconsistancy keeps the grading services in business and keeps us resubmitting.

 

It could be the strike. When I look at slabbed coins I tend to focus mostly on luster and hits and sometimes overlook the strike. When I look at raw coins I tend to go be more careful before jumping to a grade. Also, I don't believe I ever looked at the coin once I cracked it out. Maybe there was something that could not be seen though the slab. I know PCGS and NGC are not supposed to net grade but it seems that sometimes they do. When I first started collecting coins, I had a dealer submit a raw saint for me. The Saint looked to be about an MS65 or MS66 but on close inspection you could see album slide marks all over boths sides of the coin. Rather than body-bad the coin it came back as MS62.

 

Thats why I buy most of my coins in MS-63-64 if you look long enough you'll find ones that are just as nice as 65s and a whole lot cheaper .
rzage

 

pcgs.................

yes but!

when you go to sell, the person buying is more apt to choose the slabbed coin over the raw coin, i think. and will become more and more the norm. in the future. jmho.

 

Some people collect for their enjoyment, some collect to invest, some to make a profit, and others for all those reasons.

I do agree that you should always be selective when buying a coin graded or not. If you are looking to sell a valuable piece you should probably slab your coin with a major TPG. This helps everyone involved.

For instance I bid on a number of ebay items last night, and I know the individual selling the coins could have made thousands more if his coins were slabbed. After having many discussions with the guy it was evident he was not aware of the coins true value. All of the coins he had were raw, but probably mint state. The bidding increased significantly towards the end of the auction. IMO it was because people new the coins were PQ.

I ended up winning probably one of the least valued items and it was a PROOF 1890 (semi-scarce date) IHC. I can almost garuntee the coin is PR 63+. The guy had no idea it was a proof, and I won the auction for $91.

I was also bidding on a 1842 SLD, and a 1901 $10 Eagle. Whoever won those items made out like a bandit. They were also IMO, PQ MS coins. I could be wrong, but obviously someone else thought so too. Those coins could be worth thousands more than what they went for.

Don't get burned.... On the other hand I could be totally off base, and the purchasers (myself included), could be getting taken to the cleaners. Either way having those coins professionally graded and slabbed would have helped that guy out.


Honestly I'm still breathing hard because I lost those other two auctions. I want to cry cry cry.

 

my dear friend if you had informed me of those auctions i would have made sure that the coins stayed in the forum next time you see a steal like this please let friendly neighborhood spock know

 

greetings!

just as many have mentioned..people resubmit coins a multitude of times to get the number they want put on a slab. thats why the pop reports are skewed. playing the plastic game is popular with dealers. if they get the right number...they may hit it big time.
everyone needs to learn to grade. a coin is worth what someone is willing to pay for it....not what a slab says it is. too many rely on the plastic to tell them what a coin is "worth".
if you have the cash you can continue to send it in til you get what you want the slab to say. i have heard it works, even from experts like david bowers.
very best wishes and as long as you love the coin...who cares what the plastic says? enjoy your collecting!
sincerely,
steve

 

Gradeing Coins

Dont reslab just learn how to grade your self but everyones opinion on the grade of any coin is different and a higher grade makes a big difference in the value i think people just like the peace of mind knowing that with a graded coin from a respectable grading company is were the value lies but your absoleutly right about a coin is only worth what you can sell it for. :smile

 

This is exactly why people play the crackout game. They see a MS65 in a MS63 holder, and say.... "WOW! This is an opportunity to make some cash."

Even if you were going to hold on to the coin for investment puposes, and you thought it deserved a higher grade it benefits you to play the crackout game if you are correct.

I have heard the the "crackers" success has went way down in recent years as the TPG's are actually tightening up a bit.

One more thought.... graded coins are also traded like commodities between certain dealers. If you have a PCGS or NGC graded coin the wholesale value can be attained "sight unseen". Even the wholsale price between graded can be significant.

Admiring coins for their beauty is something all collectors do, but IMO they should also pay attention to the investment aspect if for no other reason than the need for liquidity in times of emergency. Most other investments offer you a way to retrieve your wealth, but in the case of a coin collection... you are the fund manager. Being the fund manager, CEO, financial advisor, or whatever make sure you take care of the shareholder, the customer, or the comapny livelyhood.