1857-S Double Eagle/ vastly overpriced....

@panzerman Just out of curiosity, where do you get your number of 119,000 1857 S double eagles on the SS Central America? I was looking into it, and the numbers just don’t add up. Not only is the exact number of 1857 S double eagles on board not known, but the $2,000,000 in specie on board (in 1857 dollars) means there was about 100,000 ounces of gold on board. Now considering that a vast amount of that number was gold ingots/nuggets/dust, the number of 1857 S double eagles would have to be far less than 100,000. And they were not the only gold coin recovered. Lots of 1856 S double eagles and hundreds of other gold coins have also been recovered.

 

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I have not been able to verify this number either

 

I need to create or see a spreadsheet comparing prices vs. quantity available in the various grades.

But are non-SSCA 1857-S's going for discount to SSCA 1857-S 's? I presume the SSCA's carry a premium given the story.

It was also my understanding that when the horde hit about 2001 that the existing market price did NOT fall that much because there was such pent-up demand for Type collectors and also because the price set for the SSCA 1857-S's was set artificially high.

Ironically, I tracked the 2.5 oz. restrike prices over the years but not the 1857-S's.

 

Who is "propping up" the price ? I would think 15+ years after the coins hit the market that any artificial premium (like on the restrikes) would have dissipated.

 

Actually, they went from about $1,500 to $30 or so.

But that was different. There were very few 1904-O's and suddenly you had tens of thousands being released EVERY MONTH for the next 2 years.

 

Prices should NEVER be set strictly by population numbers. It's a key factor, for sure....but I know I would value a Carson City more than other mints from that era.

 

I think this couuld be true.

In the past, I don't recall reading too much about the entire mintage and the expectations that more coins would be brought up. I think the general public and maybe even some of the numismatic community assumed that they got the bulk on the 1st try and that only a few hundred more or so would be coming up, maybe a few thousand dribbling out over time (assuming a salvage was even attempted).

How do you set the price on something in the early-2000's....knowing that tens of thousands of more may come out 10 or 15 or 20 years later ?

Very tough to price........

 

That's exactly what has happened in the past, though now so many more people can find out information on the Internet that in 1999-2001 that I suspect that when the next supply horde hits that pricing will NOT hold (at least not as long as up to the present).

There are only so many shipwrecks. You can market "there are no more shipwrecks...no more gold hordes in the oceans" and it's true.

The $64,000 Question: Will folks find out what happened to previous prices.

What DID happen with the 1857-S's?

I know the Restrikes which were 2.4 oz went from a 700% premium to gold down to about 20%. The price for the coins was flat to down 20%; gold quadrupled.

Not exactly a good investment !!!

 

Bingo !! The 1907 PR is just a special shiny example of a coin with multiple others just like it, including other proofs.

But the Saint series had just 1 year of HR's.

 

How come ?

Actually could be a bad sign....means prices have fallen but nobody wants to sell at that level, meaning prices are "sticky" on the downside and it will take time for the market price to clear.

 

@messydesk
some of my coins are "Train wrecks" as trains have wrecked them

 

Not quite the same, before the SS Central America 1857 S double eagles were available but MS pieces were almost unheard of, in fact any type I double eagle was rare in MS. Today the 57 S is the like the 1884 CC or 1904 O dollar possibly more common in MS than circulated.

 

Do you recall when the 1st/2nd batches were released and what happened to prices before/after ?

If the remaining coins are ALL brought up at once, I agree, that amount of supply should crush the premium pricing.

 

I see MSDs being marketed in those infomercials at 4 AM, but I haven't seen anything for the SSCAs in print or on TV.

Much higher price point may be a deterrent.