Water damaged / rusted Morgans (how to restore)

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by GeorgeM, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Acetone won't hurt, but it only reacts with organic material, except in one obscure experiment using environmental factors that rarely occurs on earth on a grant from a company wanting to replace the use of acetone to clean copper pipes before soldering them .Most ignored it and still use acetone. IMO of course, Jim
     
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  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

    Oooooooooo...I'm gonna tell Doug...
     
  4. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    You would tell on another chemist????? Sad,

    Jim
     
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  5. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

    OK...I take it back :(:oops:
     
  6. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    It's OK, Doug will just make me take some time off :) I need that time for the nice weather between summer broil and winter freeze to clean up the outside area.

    Jim
     
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  7. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

    Quick thought, lemon juice is acidic enough to attack rust, but shouldn't harm silver.
     
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  8. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    I haven't taught any chemistry this year as the Anat/Physio teacher took a medical leave and I took a Full Time temp position to cover her classes. That maxed out my earnings with retirement until next fall and I will have to paid some back anyway :)
    But it is a heck of a lot of fun!!

    jim
     
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  9. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Interesting! It's a selective chelating agent, which sounds an awful lot like our beloved VerdiCare. @BadThad?

    If that's what it is, it should be safe on silver, although it'd probably take a long time to go through a gallon jug -- especially since this case (iron rust on a non-steel coin) is pretty unusual.
     
  10. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

  11. old49er

    old49er Well-Known Member

    Interesting experiment,looking forward to results. I say do the 1/10th strength dip.
     
  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Welp, looks like I'll be wandering by Walmart sometime this week for a pick-up. I've got some rusty steelies and nickels (?!) from a big junk lot I bought a few years ago, and I've got PLENTY of other rusty stuff that could use some attention. Might even see if it can take off a couple of rust stains on countertops.
     
  13. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Don't add acid after midnight!!
     
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  14. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Thanks. I had read that a glass bowl & heavily ventilation are recommended, but it's worth remembering that other collectors with a similar problem may come across this thread years down the road.

    A quick update on the distilled water soaking method: no noticeable change after 24 hours.
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I agree with your comments, there will be no damage to the coin as a result of you holding the edges with your fingers (or plastic tongs), from your fingers or tongs, while it's in the cleaner. Assuming it's only for a very short time frame.

    The fluid itself, yes there can be damage from that because of the velocity of the fluid molecules . And to make it worse, all the particles that come off the coin, will be for all intents and purposes grinding against the coin in a manner similar to sandblasting.

    You, or anybody, can easily test this yourself. Take a coin that is fully lustrous, no contamination on it that you can see. Hold it with plastic tongs in the cleaner, keep it there for 15 minutes or so. Then take it out and look at it - the luster will be gone. And if you could leave it in there long enough, it would even eat the details right off the surface of the coin.

    I suppose most folks aren't aware of it but water itself is abrasive, at sufficient speed. There is even an industrial machine that cuts through cylinders of chrome steel 3 feet in diameter in seconds, and it does it with a thin jet of water, nothing but plain water. It cuts right through that steel like a hot knife through butter. And the reason it works is because the water is under enough pressure to produce sufficient velocity for it to do this.

    This is why ultrasonic cleaners work to clean things. It's because the molecules of the fluid reach sufficient velocity from the vibration to eat away contaminants from the surface. It's the same basic principle the cutting machine uses, make the water or fluid move fast enough and it'll cut metal.
     
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  16. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    Status of the distilled water soak after 24 hours:

    20191104_082439.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  17. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    I'm trying the third Morgan (an 1885-O) in Acetone. I was surprised to find that Acetone is sold in steel containers, as I thought it would be sold in non-reactive glass. I guess they're stainless steel and it's a compromise between reactivity and fragility (ie: customers are more likely to break a glass jar on the shelves than the acetone is to react with stainless steel in the weeks or months between manufacture and sale).

    Here are the "before" pictures for this coin:
    20191104_094646.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  18. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    10 minutes in Acetone showed virtually no result. Placed in about 2 ounces of liquid (enough to completely immerse the coin, at 60 degrees F, in the shade next to an open window (for ventilation).

    I'm setting the timer for another 20 minutes. 20191104_095917.jpg

    20191104_095912.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  19. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    20 more minutes (30 minute mark), no significant changes. I'm beginning to wonder if Acetone is ineffective against rust.

    Resetting the timer for another 30 minutes (1 hour total).

    Unless there is a sudden change, I'll keep documenting at:
    10 minutes
    30 minutes
    60 minutes
    2 hours
    4 hours
    10 hours
    24 hours


    20191104_102101.jpg 20191104_102051.jpg
     
  20. GeorgeM

    GeorgeM Well-Known Member

    60 minute acetone soak:

    20191104_105450.jpg 20191104_105456.jpg
     
  21. juris klavins

    juris klavins Well-Known Member

    Suggested use from the manufacturer's fact sheet:
    • Engines • Automotive • Turbines • Tools • Manufacturing • Paint Prep • Marine/Boat Parts • Ship Yards • Construction • Machine Shops
    No mention of silver coins - be careful :cool:
     
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