1828 Cohen-1 Classic Head Half-Cent

Howdy fellow coin peeps, :thumb:

I got another copper in today and figured I'd share it with ya'll.

It's a 1828 Cohen-1 Classic Head Half-Cent. When looking at it, you'll notice the I in LIBERTY is weak but that is a variety thingy and not wear, so don't count that against it when grading. Also, the area around STATES on the reverse is weakly struck so don't "kill" my little coin for that reason either.

Ribbit

 

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Nice coin! One of these days I might attribute my half cents - what few I have.

 

Maybe I'll have a book on them by then and can help you out, since you've helped me out on so many of mine. :thumb:

Ribbit

Ps: I noticed a large gap between the B & E of LIBERTY and on others I've looked at, they don't have a gap like mine.

 

Congrats!

 

I would give it a VF-30, but I'm still learning!

 

Nice coin , I'd say VF-25 , always liked the classic head coins . rzage

 

Nice work, toad !

I'm thinking VF30 details, a few bumps and nicks, particularly obverse, net F15. Nice color !

Copper is cool. Classic "turban" head is extra cool.

 

I was bored and decided to peek at this under a magnifying glass and noticed something the original pic didn't show. The HALF CENT has been re-punched and I am wondering what this does for value, since it isn't mentioned or shown with the variety?

Ribbit

 

I don't have Cohen's book, but I have Breen's "Encyclopedia of US Half Cents". Yes, this is Cohen-1 (R-3), the scarcest of the three varieties of 1828. Congrats !

The Breen photos for 1828 C-1 show the same doubling as your coin, but mention no repunching of the letters HALF CENT. They appear to be strike doubling (machine doubling), and probably carry no additional premium. It's also possible they really are repunched letters; dunno.

It's possible strike doubling is common on this type; I have an MS 1835 with very pronounced doubling on HALF CENT.

If you're interested in Half Cents, check out the Heritage auction catalog for the Colonel Steve Ellsworth collection of half cents. Great photography accompanied by attribution can help guys like us. The auction catalog makes a great reference accompaniment to Cohen or Breen.

Also notable... the Ellsworth 1828 C-1 shows similar doubling as your coin.

 

Does it also have the weak strike areas like mine does? The I in LIBERTY on the obverse & STATES on the reverse?

Ribbit

Ps: Thankies for your info! :thumb: I'm going to start acquiring books as soon as I can afford it, which means, as soon as I stop buying coins long enough to have money to buy books with.

Pps: The doubling isn't one-sided so that leads me to believe it's a recut/repunched doubling that has occurred. The F and E are "nasty" looking because of it, but a good nasty. To fully explain what I mean, I will break down the doubling by letter (best I can):

H - very noticeable on top of the left leg and slightly on the right one.
A - very noticeable under the horizontal line
L - very noticeable on the right side of the vertical line and on the top of the lower horizontal line
F - very noticeable in the center horizontal half-line all around it and on the lower side of the top horizontal line

C - very noticeable on the entire inside curve
E - very noticeable all around the center horizontal line
N - very noticeable on both sides of the diagonal line
T - very noticeable on both sides of the vertical line

 

I found another one like mine (Heritage Auctions), cept'n it's in MS condition (NGS MS-62), and because of its condition you can see the doubling extremely well:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/1715-1828-1-2-C-13-Stars-MS62-Brown-NGC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ52618QQihZ007QQitemZ170220836063QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I've also seen more without the re-cut HALF CENT, than I do with the doubling (50 to 1 as of now), so that tells me the ones with a re-cut HALF CENT are probably more scarce than those without it (latter part of the minting cycle).

I would think this would create a sub-catagory in the variety, since it is the same variety but something is different. Have the grading companies missed this? I know that it was missed by Breen & Cohen (900fine looked it up for me in his books) so is this just another one everyone has missed? I see sub-catagories for other coins, why wouldn't this qualify for a sub-catagory?

Ribbit

Ps: I posed the same question to NGC and I will let you know what they say, if they ever answer my question?

 

Somehow, I doubt the Big Dogs missed it, but one never knows. There are still undiscovered Discovery Coins.

Is it a distinct die variety ? Personally, I don't think so. It looks like strike doubling, not die doubling. One reason I think so - I checked several 1828 C-1s on Heritage. Several showed doubling, but none exactly alike. Thus, it cannot be a die characteristic - they would be identical.

 

My understanding of strike doubling is, it doesn't go both directions (bi-doubling). It goes one direction, meaning it is TRUE doubling and also in line (exact copy of whatever is being doubled). I do not believe this is true doubling, since the doubling is sometimes on one side, another time it's on the opposite side and another it's on both sides. The "N" in CENT is a perfect example, how did the doubling get on both sides of the diagonal line but didn't show up on the vertical lines? How can you explain that, other than a re-cut die?

Ribbit

 

Here's one more pic of the doubling. It shows the doubling better than the other pics:

Ribbit

 

The "T" in CENT has doubling on both sides of the upright. If that's the result of a doubled die, that would mean "T" was repunched twice... once to the left, once to the right, and finally in the middle.

A while back, there was a great post about the difference between die doubling and and machine / strike doubling. Die doubling usually has the two images at the same level (height), while the strike doubling shows the two images at different levels. There were other issues as well (can't recall).

On the piece in question, the "under" image is at a lower altitude - closer to the field, lower relief - than the primary image.

 

One thing's for sure, the little sucker's got some serious doubling going down. But wait till I post another one shortly. That one will be interesting to talk about. :secret: I believe it may qualify as a new variety but NGC hasn't piped up so I am still in the dark as to what it takes to qualify for being a new variety. I'm thinking of asking PCGS, with the new one, if NGC doesn't respond about this one by the time the other one gets in. :hammer:

Thankies again for your input. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

Interesting thread about doubling...

http://www.cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=4446&highlight=STRIKE+DOUBLING

 

It is not a new variety, but it is a late die state of an existing/known one.

 

Do you know what the difference is between the two varieties of the 1825 Classic Head Half-Cent (Cohen 1 & 2)? I've compared pics and the re-punched 12th star is ablout all I can see different. I'd like to know what the differences are, if there is more than that, because I have one that has something different than either and the 12th star doesn't appear to be like either.

I'd like to know exactly what differences there are before posting my find, so when I post it I can explain all the differences I recognize and since getting a new variety designation isn't simple, I need to be armed with everything before submitting it as a Discovery coin so I will be posting it here shortly so others can put their two cents in.

Ribbit

 

Also, what you're seeing is not doubling, but remenants of the letter punching (sometimes called Longacre Doubling, a bit of a misnomer).