cleaning and retoning

First of all I understand that this is a "controversial" subject with all coin collectors; as I have my own beliefs on this matter.

1. The person who restores an antique painting is commended.

2. The person who restores a piece of antique funiture is also commended.

3. The person who preserves or restores an old comic book is commended.

4. The person who preserves or restores an old document is commended.

Why is the person who retones, cleans or restores a coin not given the same consideration?

If a coin has bronze disease, (patina) or pvc damage should one just let it deteroirate until the coin consumes itself?

Many collectors and professional numismatics’ "oil" their coins to preserve them, Are they wrong?


The "Declaration of Independence" is preserved as well as the "Dead Sea Scrolls" however; the term a "cleaned coin" or a "retoned coin" are considered appalling in the numismatic world.

In our world, "coin doctors" are the scum of the earth. Is our philosophy wrong?

 

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The thing is, almost no one with zero experience knows how to do cleaning right. The same applies to other form of restoration: do you entrust plumbers, artists, cleaners etc to do the restoration? NO. You let the specialists do it and there is no guarantee that restoring them will make them look "better".

 

and NCS does restore your coins

 

Hi Harry,

I do not believe the coin community is wrong about its philosophy concerning restoring old coins. Most of what I have read and learned about coin cleaning tells me that dipping and cleaning a coin can remove a layer of the actual metal, therefore removing its original surface. If you were to pay a premium price for a coin would you not want it as original as possible? Cleaning everyday dirt from a coin can cause unwanted scratches that could turn the coin into just another piece of metal.

After seeing so many Antiques Roadshows I tend to agree with the 'do not touch the finish on an item', be it paint, patina and sometimes even rust. The experts always tell the owner of the collectibles/antiques to take the item to a professional restorer, but only if it will increase the value of the item.

I understand 'patina' to be just what an expert expects to find on antique bronze and other metal objects, not to mention wood furniture finishes.

Patina on copper is quite important and helps to tell us whether or not the coin is genuine. If it were a copper cooking pot used for everyday cooking then clean away. Cleaning a copper coin can ruin its intrinsic value. Just think about what a Lincoln 1909 svdb would be worth if someone has taken copper cleaner to it.

I know I prefer a nice shiny copper cent like most of us. But I would not clean a very nicely aged coin to achieve the 'like new' finish. Besides, in some cases trying to remove coin diseases isn't even possible because the disease is part of the metal and not just surface dirt.

Preservation is a method used to stop the deterioration of a valuable object such as the Declaration of Independence and other important works, and not to make it look like new again. Restoring the document to look new would virtually take away the history of the piece.

Yes on some restoration, but no to most.

Again, just my humble opinion.
jeankay

 

Cleaning or recoloring a coin is perfectly fine if you can do it correctly. Now the way we use to clean coins by scrubbing them with a baking soda paste was never a good idea but letting a coin soak in acetone is perfectly fine and has been discussed numerous time on this site. I view that as cleaning a coin as the coin will be cleaner when it comes out then when it went in.

There are ways that a coin can be cleaned with out affecting the surfaces of the coin or the natural color. As long as there is no signs of the item being cleaned I say that it is alright.

 

Harry I feel like you do , but only if the coin has really ugly , splotchy toning ,that lowers its value already . Also the cleaning must be done right , with no atempt to defraud . To bad most coins that are cleaned , are done so by people who don't know what they're doing . If the coins were cleaned correctly you should'nt be able to tell . Also we are in the minority . rzage

 

It is probably because most of the time when coins are cleaned it is done by someone who is very inexperienced and ends up giving the coin tons of very unattractive scratches or takes off some of the coins original metal. You're talking about things like documents and paintings being perfectly acceptable to clean, but that is usually done by professionals who know exactly what they are doing. I for one have never seen someone sitting at their kitchen table with a toothpick and some acetone trying to clean the Mona Lisa or the Declaration of Independence, but its a completely different story with coins.

 

That is a great way to put it. There was an article in ANA magazine I read about 6 months ago (can't find it now) and it was talking about cleaning coins with some one that actually cleaned coins for a living. They did not give out his name but he stressed the point that when he is finished working on a coin that you can not tell. He also sends coins into NGC and PCGS to be slabbed and almost always they are slabbed after he has "cleaned" them. His thoughts were that if NGC and PCGS finds the coin to be acceptable then he did a good job.

Just his though and some thing to think about. I am sure we have all seen and owned coins that have been cleaned or worked on at some point and time and didn't even know it. This goes to show that if done correctly and by some one that knows what they are doing it is just fine. At least to me.

 

I agree

I agree as long the person isn't attempting to defraud or hide problems with the coin. If its your coin and you don't plan to sell it, do what you want with it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Also if it is corroded , stoping it in time may save the coin.

 

I agree with that. Leave it to a professional

 

Retoning

Yes I agree , retoning is akin to fraud. Only nature should tone a coin .
rzage

 

just a thought!!!!!!!!!!

Question...how come it is ok for sea teasure hunter to restore old sunken treasure ie silver and gold coins and sell them on the open market...and also isn't a professional coin doctor preserving art...hmmmmmm



1. The person who restores an antique painting is commended.

2. The person who restores a piece of antique funiture is also commended.

3. The person who preserves or restores an old comic book is commended.

4. The person who preserves or restores an old document is commended.

Why is the person who retones, cleans or restores a coin not given the same consideration?

If a coin has bronze disease, (patina) or pvc damage should one just let it deteroirate until the coin consumes itself?

Many collectors and professional numismatics’ "oil" their coins to preserve them, Are they wrong?


The "Declaration of Independence" is preserved as well as the "Dead Sea Scrolls" however; the term a "cleaned coin" or a "retoned coin" are considered appalling in the numismatic world.

In our world, "coin doctors" are the scum of the earth. Is our philosophy wrong?

 

I think cleaning a coin, is okay, under the right circumstances..If you have some old, corroded, hunk o' junk, that you have to wear protective shades, just to look at it, then yes, the coin should be cleaned, and somewhat restored to its original form.. But only if you know what you are doing..
I for one, have no clue what I am doing, I've tried this once, but it was just to try, and it was on a common memorial penny, so no big deal, I'd rather mess up on the memorial than a key wheat..
I think it does just make you wonder, if somebody did know what they were doing, if one of your coins is cleaned, and you do not even know it!

 

The thing is, almost no one with zero experience knows how to do cleaning right.


Hence, the reason one with zero experience seeks guidance, in forums like this one, before attempting to do so.

 

and only nature should un-tone a coin. Dipping is also akin to fraud.

although I know very few will agree with this. I agree dipping is OK if the toning has reached the black stage but up to that point ,toning can be limited with proper treatment and storing.

Jim

 

hello..jim,
nice to hear from you......
Neal

 

What methods do PCGS and NGC use LATELY to determine whether a coin has been cleaned (aside from looking for the obvious multiple-parallel-line marks indicative of a hard brushing)? It seems they've become A LOT more picky and quick to slap a "cleaned" or "tooled" judgment on coins than they were, say, two years ago. Most frustrating, as I've sent many coins that seemed FINE to me, but "cleaned" or "tooled" to PCGS, etc.

 

desertgem , always startig a arguemen I mean discussion .:whistle:JK
rzage

 

Haa, thanks Rusty. I think ! :hail:

When things get boring one can always start a

Toners vs. Dippers Thread
Cleaning vs. Conservation Thread
Classic coins vs. Modern Mint Stuff
Collector vs. Investor Thread
:rolling:

Jim