Duchy of Athens Denier

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by VD76, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    B8C303D9-A463-4E89-8B7D-3A96B8D67C33.jpeg This coin was discussed about six years ago on a Russian forum. Recently it was brought to my attention from my new friend on that forum .There is no doubt that this coin belonged to the Duchy of Athens, but there’s confusion with the name Alfonso , because there was no Duke by that name, only Catalan vicars-general Alfonso Frederick (who most likely didn’t mint any coins , not sure about this ) . It will be interesting if anyone familiar with this coin or have any ideas on what this could be. This coin was a part of the hoard of about fifty coins , that dates about 1350 and found in the Southern Italy. There was few a coins in the Athens by the Catalan Company and almost half of this hoard from Achaea .
    Size and weight is unknown to me .
     
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  3. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Extremely interesting. In the weekend I'll be able to consult some books and I will return with some notes.

    Some preliminary questions first:

    1. How sure are we that the hoard is dated in the 1350s?

    2. We know for certain that the deniers of Greece did circulate in southern Italy in the 14th century -- and the other way around, some deniers tournois of Nicola II di Monforte (1460-1461) did end up in circulation in Greece, is it therefore possible that this coin is actually Italian, minted for Alfonso after 1443 after a Greek blueprint? (there are known specs for instance of NICOLA CONN - DE CLARENTIA hybrids, minted for Nicola II in 1461)
     
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  4. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Also, the obverse legend is very likely ALFONSVS REX. Very likely Alfonso of Trastamara as King of the Two Sicilies.
     
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  5. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    0.55 gr.
     
  6. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    As expected, this coin is listed neither in Monete dell'Abruzzo e del Molise by D'Andrea and Andreani, nor in Il denaro tornese nell'Italia Meridionale by Fabrizi. Both on the other hand list several instances of hybrid issues, minted perhaps during the shifty period of 1462-1464, between the Battle of Troia and the defeat of the pro-Angevin revolt and the actual forfeit of Jean d'Anjou's claim over the throne of Naples for the previously deposed King Rene d'Anjou.

    These hybrids have features of both Neapolitan baronial and of earlier late 13th century Achaean coinages. Greek deniers tournois have seen intense circulation in Southern Italy following the annexation of Morea by Charles I d'Anjou to his domains after 1278, but local Neapolitan tornesi did not begin to be minted until the reign of Charles III around the mid 1380s.

    Here are some examples of hybrid issues from Cagiati apud Fabrizi: 1.jpg - a Glarentza/Campobasso hybrid

    2.jpg
    - a pseudo-Glarentza bearing the name of Nicola II di Monforte, one of the condottieri leading the pro-Angevin revolt (1459-1464)

    3.jpg
    - a pseudo-Florent d'Avesnes (1289-1297) hybrid with Nicola II (cca. 1464 or later?)

    Of course there are also the tornesi of Rene as King of Naples (dated cca. 1435-1440, or according to some, minted during the pro-Angevin revolt of 1459-1464):

    4.jpg

    and the very rare tornese of Alfonso de Trastamara (cca. 1445-1450s):

    57703977d736c_tornesesulmona.JPG.88d9d669f643db5a106beab471fd66c4.JPG

    In corollary, starting with cca. 1388/1390, the Duchy of Athens enters the domain of the Acciaioli family of Florence and under this lordship immobilized tornesi were minted in the 1390s at the Acrocorinth stronghold, coins that also saw a fair amount of circulation in Italy.

    tournois athens.jpg
    - an inedit tornese/tournois of the Acciaoli interest in the Duchy of Athens.

    The coin presented here in the OP seems to fit along the lines of this context -- an Italian (Neapolitan) coinage with hybrid features, naming Alfonso as King and at the same time Duke of Athens. Historically, this titulature has not disappeared after the fall of the Duchy to the Ottomans around 1455-1458, and kings of Aragon have occasionally used it on the strength of their previous overlordship following the Catalan conquest in 1311. It is not impossible that the title was used by Alfonso as both King of Aragon and Naples in the 1450s. This aspect would tie nicely the presence of DVX ATHENES on a coinage of the Italia Meridionale and account for the hybrid trend between 15th century Italian legends and earlier 13-14th centuries Morean princes and/or mints.

    Tomorrow I will check my Bollettino di Numismatica database for possible analogies, but I don't have much hope to find any.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2019
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  7. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Way to come to the rescue on this topic, Seth! There is nothing I can contribute.
     
  8. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Thank you, I have never seen a tournois that I didn't like :vamp::vamp::greyalien:
     
  9. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    The conclusion that the date of this hoard around the middle of the 14th century was made from the most recent coins from this hoard , that can be identified.
     
  10. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Without a thorough quantitative study of the hoard and of the particularities of specific coins apart from this spec, it is rather hard to be sure of a certain date. Especially when its composition is made of Greek tournois and hybrid imitations, either of the likes of the Acciaioli Athens or of Italian mints. Coins minted for Florent d'Avesnes at Glarentza or Corinth in the 1290s were still in circulation in the baronies of the Kingdom of Naples as late as 1464 and were the blueprints for the minting of coinage during the Angevin revolt. And the import of Achaean coinage to Southern Italy continued at least through the reign of Robert de Taranto to the 1360s, while the import of Acrocorinth tournois of Athens from the Acciaioli period starts in the 1390s. As a matter of fact, the tournois I tentatively assigned to Jacques des Baux and his bid as Prince of Morea in 1381-1383 a couple of years ago comes from an old Italian collection.

    Long story short, when dealing with Italian finds, coins that at a first glance might look like normal Greek tournois, could be in fact: a. later hybrids or b. coins circulating for a long time after their presumed minting.
     
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  11. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    So probably you’ll like this one :) . In my collection now :)
    03C3D4C6-37F0-40F0-8093-C7DAF44679D2.jpeg
     
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  12. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    This is a nice Robert de Taranto
     
  13. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    This is the line drawing coin in Malloy, Preston and Seltman's "Coins of the Crusader States."
    CCS 73
     
  14. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Some more hybrids from the collection of Vittorio Emanuele III, cf. Bollettino di Numismatica 36, 2015:

    c1.jpg
    #34, Nicola II 1462-1464, hybrid with obv legend for Guillaume II de Villehardouin of Achaea, cca 1270s

    c2.jpg
    #35, hybrid or variation by Nicola II for Giovanni Antonio del Balzo (des Baux) as Prince of Taranto (1420-1463)

    c4.jpg
    #1 hybrid Nicola II - Giacomo da Montagano, cca. 1462-1464.

    They are not analogies to the type in OP but coins of necessity following the tornese type that is known to have been in issue under both Rene d'Anjou and Alfonso de Trastamara.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
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  15. VD76

    VD76 Well-Known Member

    @seth77
    Thank you for all the information. I was not aware that deniers tornoise been so widespread produced and circulated so long after 14th century because I simply INATTENTIVELY READ :banghead: the description of the coin (I have two tornesello from the Chalkis Hoard ) without realizing till now that this is about Venetian colonies :)

    "The tornesello was minted in Venice but was specifically designated for use by the administrators of colonies of Coron and Modon, Negroponte and Crete. Struck in an alloy of 1/9 silver, they were intended as a replacement for the Frankish denier tournois, last minted in 1350 .”
    :)
    But I’m still little bit confused .....
     
  16. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    The tornesello is a different type, made to supleant the tournois, that apparently had a gap in minting after Giovanni de Gravina. Most of the rule of Robert de Taranto, the Prince was either a minor or utterly uninterested in the Morea. This left a void in the central authority and in the coinage of the realms. The tornesello is a Venetian coinage that tries to fill the monetary void during the rule of Robert. Apparently there were no tournois minted by the baillies of Robert/the Regency until around 1356 (cf. Malloy).
     
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