ASEs: PF69 or PF70

I'm using ASEs as an example. I've been looking at them lately and wondering what the variable(s) would be between a proof 69 and a proof 70 if they're both supposed to be proof? What makes a 69 straight from the mint imperfect? Not struck well?

I've noticed that a 70 costs about twice as much for the perfect coin. Could the average person tell the difference between a 69 and 70 if the grades were covered up? I haven't looked at many of them in person.

 

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In a word - no. Essentially the only difference between a PF-69 and a PF-70 (or a MS-69 and a MS-70) is the price.

 

I agree. In my opinion, paying up for a 70 is a waste of money. There is no difference that anyone should be willing to pay for. But slab collectors like to see the 70 on the label and probably don't even look closely at the coin.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NGC-ERROR-200...ryZ39488QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


This guy is selling a slab error, let alone what coin is inside the slab.


Mental.

 

That's rediculous. For one, nobody should be willing to pay that much for that. And how could NGC get that wrong? A 2007? They've primarily been coming out of West Point since 2001. How could they miss that?

Makes you wonder how they decide what's a 69 and 70.

Thanks for the help. I was thinking along the same lines. You can buy two 69s for the price of a 70. In the end, you have two proof silver eagles instead of one. I think the 70 is great but on a coin that's supposed to be perfect anyway, the lower grades just don't make sense.

 

There have been 1 or 2 times that I could tell a 69 from a 70. Of course a dealer had to point out the difference. I could never tell the difference and I have looked. As it is I will stick with 69's.

 

Virtually all modern proof coins are fabulous quality; you have to be to get a 69, and there are very few 68 or lower.

I bet you could tell the difference between 69 and 70 with a glass, and in a few cases with your naked eye.

 

I think there are more 68s and below than you think. They just don't get slabbed.

 

I am very satisfied with 69.

 

The only diffrence might be a small (tiny ) spot of discoloration ,you wouldn't even notice it 99 / 100 times . Not worth the premium you pay . there is no difference in the strikings themself . rzage

 

I'm not a collector of slabed coins but respect those that do....to each his own. Took a trip to one of the dealers in my neck of the woods today and asked if he could show me a comparison of a 69 and 70 (silver eagles). He had plenty of 69's but no 70's, hence no comparison. But he did tell me this; he said that the folks at NGC use a 5x magnification on determining the grade of coins that they certify. That's not a lot of magnification. Just wondering what you folks on this forum think. He told me that using anything higher than a 5x and you're going to see all kinds of imperfections, even on coins that are graded 70. Just wondering what you folks think...I know there are some former graders from the major grading services that post on CT. What's your take? Is this guy jive'n me? I always was under the impression that the major tpgs's used a microscope in determining grade.

 

I may be mistaken but I do not think the TPG use any magnification to grade coins. Some of the big dog coins they may but it seems to me they use the no defects with the naked eye philosophy . If they do use magnification then someone really was having a bad day when they slabed a coin of mine a MS 70 . Even under a 3x magnification grocery reader card I use, I can see all kinds of little stuff. Seems to me every time I look at this coin, these flaws are getting bigger , you know like they are taking on a life of their on, growing and growing.

 

Here is one which could go either way IMHO, but it ended up with 69. I purchased it already graded and have seen 70s which look worse. Any marks you see are on the slab itself.

 

That's a pretty cherry eagle there Bone. From what you and Bama are saying it all seems to boil down to one thing....who's on duty the day your coin gets graded. Is it the hangin' grader or the lenient and easy going grader?

 

Coin grading is very subjective. Different people often see things differently. That is one reason many people resubmit coins several times in hope of an upgrade. People are human and make mistakes , even the best are not perfect. I plan of having my coin reviewed just to see what happens. It could be well in there parameters for a MS 70. Any way I will chalk it up to a learning experience.

 

Right you are Bama....subjective. I've heard horror stories about guys re-submitting coins, hoping for a higher grade, and coming back two clicks shy of what the coin graded for the first time around. That is one reason why I don't collect slabs...it's not an exact science. Collect for the love of the coin itself...if you like the way it looks that's all that matters. I guess what I"m really saying is that IMHO my collection is a MS/PF70.

 

I'm going to make a post over in coin chat right now with a youtube link. It's a 5 minute video showing the process coins go through at PCGS. It shows graders grading coins and at least one guy is using a loupe and it looks to be more than 5x magnification to me.

 

Yes they have almost all come out of West Point since 2000 (I think the 2006 P reverse proof is the only exception), but they have only had the W mintmark on SOME uncirculated ones since 2006. And for all of the 2000 - 2008 unc from West Point that don't have mintmarks the grading services don't put the W on the label. It's just a habit/mindset they haven't broken yet. Uncirculated ASE's don't have mintmarks. Oops, this one does.

 

Thankyou.