Honesty on Ebay?

If Ebay's rules state that, then when I've reported counterfeit PCGS slabs to PCGS and they've had the auction closed, I also interfered with an auction. I would believe the rules would apply to legitimate auctions and not fraudulent ones, but that is my opinion but I'd personally like to see Ebay ban someone for that reason because that would violate their own policy against fraud and Ebay isn't the only person concerned with fraudulent items being sold on Ebay and Ebay does not have the power to claim eminent domain over items being sold on Ebay. If you don't believe me, ask the Secret Service or how about the DEA or ATF? As a Sovereign Citizen of the United States, I also have the power they have because they got their power from me (and everyone else) and I have the right to protect myself and others just as they do!

There's a catch-22 going on here so logically speaking, fraudulent auctions cannot possibly fall under the protection of the terms of agreement mentioned.

Ribbit

 

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That's for sure.

Don't these guys have a Red Book ? Even the most basic, elementary text would rule out 1792. Anything from the US Mint dated 1792 is the playground of millionaires.

 

Toad, like i said earlier...

Like I said , I was not trying to put you down, if you feel your saving newbie coin collectors from fraudulent sells, then good for you. You might try posting on ebay community forums, lots of people read those forums and ebay moderators will read it too, maybe get there attention.:smile Ozarktravler

 

As a seller, it's important to get it right but peeps can make mistakes and as long as they correct them, I see no harm. But even I will look something up I can't confirm what it is, like the 1836 Gobrecht Silver Dollar. I thought it was a fake until I looked it up and realized what it was.

Ribbit

 

I know you weren't. I was just trying to explain what all I go through with sellers. Some will correct their listings and some don't. It's the ones that don't that get me!

Ribbit

 

"You might try posting on ebay community forums, lots of people read those forums and ebay moderators will read it too, maybe get there attention. Ozarktravler"

There are people on this forum as well as otheres I frequent that have been thrown off ebay's forum for just this reason. Aparently ebay doesn'twant to hear that some of their "powersellers" are "powerfrauders"

Richard

 

I appreciate the time and effort you put into reporting these fraudulent auctions Toad. One less scum bag on ebay isn't going to hurt anything.

 

Update:

Not a peep out of one of the sellers from the listings I posted and the "Draped Clown Cent" is still going up in price and the counterfeit Double Eagle sold. Maybe I feel sorry for the peeps that are being taken advantage of because I've been taken advantage of by similar sellers and I don't like how it feels to be all excited about that special coin arriving in the mail, cussing while fighting to get it out of it's packaging, to then have all the wind knocked out of me because it's a counterfeit. I'm currently trying to get refunds for 3 counterfeits (Trade Dollar/Morgan/Washington Unity Cent) and there's close to $300.00 involved. So, for those of you that tell me to move on, you're wasting your time! :hammer:

If I can keep one person from being taken advantage of for just one item, then this is worth it! I just wish I could do more and the advice of posting this on Ebay's forums is scary since Ebay has the power to take out trouble makers like myself and while I know Ebay is pathetic, not all the sellers are.

As long as I buy coins on Ebay, I know I'm bound to get another counterfeit that I'll have to deal with but at least they aren't going to become part of my collection and thought of as authentic. I have this forum to thank for that. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

Wrong. As long as you buy coins without stoping to LEARN you will, but if you stop and take some time to learn about the coins you are bidding on you won't be taken.
I've bought many many coins off ebay and not once have gotten a fake coin. Am I just luck? Hardly.....I've bought a few fakes but those were in person, and when I had just started. If you take some time and study about grading, how to tell fakes, and about the type of coins you are buying....and then buy from dealers that you know you can trust and that have good return policies, then you really don't run much of a chance at all of buying fake coins.

Speedy

 

My latest counterfeit was from such a dealer so that isn't absolute. Even the so called good ones (high feedback rate/good return policy) can manage to have those stats by keeping the buyers from ever reporting them or leaving negative feedback or coning you into getting second and third opinions until the time has lapsed for returning the item. All of this has been discussed in other threads on here so the only item left is education and that's the only true safeguard but with so many coins, it takes a while to learn what to look for and to have to wait to learn before buying, restricts my collecting. So I will keep collecting and try to educate myself as I go and when I get another counterfeit, that will fit right into my educational plans.

Ribbit

Ps: Another thing is, you and I are probably different in our collecting ways. You probably want what you collect and I collect what I want, which means I don't collect any certain coins, I collect what interests me and my interests can change with the click of a button and the pic of a gorgeous coin.

 

oops.

 

Hey Bone Head,

With what you originally said (edited out by you), I thought I'd let you know that it isn't illegal to possess counterfeit coins, it's illegal to try and pass them as the real thing or to possess counterfeiting equipment.

So, collecting counterfeits is totally legal.

Ribbit

Ps: I believe Hobo is an avid counterfeit collector. :thumb:

 

Here's one of the original auctions posted for discussion:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130219924941&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

It's been agreed that the coin being auctioned is what it is claimed to be except for quantity known. A R-2 coin is not Rare, it is Common, yet my message to this seller went unheeded and they sold the coin as advertised and now someone has bought a medium grade Draped Bust Cent that is a R-2 coin and they paid $1,125.00 for it.

I believe someone said all you can do is to move on? I don't think so! I think something needs to be done about this seller but I don't know what to do exactly but I think a collective effort would be better than a single Ebay Buyer sticking their two-cents in so how about a "form" complaint? Can someone knowledgeable enough about these coins, write up a form complaint and post it so we can copy-paste it into the Ebay complaint system and sign it with our name? I think if Ebay gets enough of the form complaints, they will realize we have finally organized and won't take them turning a blind eye to the unscrupulous sellers on Ebay any longer.

What do you think?

Ribbit

 

Toad,
I don't know what rarity sys. you are looking at....there are quite a few:
http://varietynickels.com/pages/rarity-system.php
But I'm going to guess that the seller was useing the "The Sheldon Scale". If so, then R-2 does stand for not too common.

Speedy

 

Me too ive been collecting them since i realized i ve been ripped off :rolling:
2 years ago one of the dealers or the helper not sure who he was... he ripped me off for a 1925 penny which turned out to be fake...(he told me he was going to find me a really good 1 ) but hey who listens to a 15 year old... the coin was checked by other coin dealers which i went to with my mum but she said we cant prove it because i didnt get any reference..
but since i am a person that doesnt give up i got him back

Sometimes its not just ebay but the coin dealers them selves taking advantage of people not familiar with coins very well..

 

The "rarity system" I used was word of mouth. I was told a R-1 was Very Common and R-2 was "Common" and CoinFacts lists the coin in question as Common:

http://www.coinfacts.com/large_cent...8_large_cents/1798_large_cent_sheldon_174.htm

If a R-2 isn't Common, then what is the R rating for Common?

Ribbit

Ps: I'm still a toad-in-training and still learning about all this stuff. Thanks for the link to the Rarity Scale. I've been wanting something like that and hadn't found it yet and now I don't have to look for it. :thumb:

Pps: The seller listed his coin as a R-2 but said there were only 2 known, which is a URS-2, or R-8 or 9, and no where near the same as a R-2.

Ppps: I just finished reading the link above and see the Sheldon Scale says Common is a R-1 so the auction in question is in error with their stipulation their coin is a R-2.

Pppps: Does anyone know for a fact what Rating Scale CoinFacts uses on rarity ratings and does the scale differ depending on the coin in question (Sheldon for certain coins, like the one in question and Overton for Capped Bust Half-Dollars, etc...)?

Ppppps: I thought I'd say it now, in case someone was wondering about all the "pps's", speaking as a toad, we usually use an apostrophe just before the "s" so that should explain why I leave "pp's" all over the place.

 

Just as a side note:

A EF-30 1798 Draped Bust Cent 2nd Hair Style (Common) books for around $1,500.00 so technically the buyer didn't get ripped off, unless you take into account the coin is artificially colored/toned to hide the corroded surface. I have no clue what a corroded surface does to value but I do know it lowers it.

Ribbit

 

I didn't know the toad's called George! You learn something every day

 

Aren't you glad you didn't lick the Toad? Or did you? :goofer:

Ribbit