BNF is my New BFF

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by David Atherton, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I make it a habit of only citing references I physically own. Up until today, my go to Flavian catalogues were RIC II.1, BMCRE II, RPC II and RSC II. Thanks to @Valentinian, I can happily now add Monnaies de l'Empire Romain Du soulevement de 68 apres J.C. a Nerva, by Jean-Baptiste Giard (BNF III). It covers the period from the Civil War to Nerva.


    20190904_194621.jpg

    20190904_194741.jpg
    20190904_194831.jpg

    This is a huge addition to my numismatic library (both physically and intellectually)! Like BMCRE, this is a catalogue of a world class collection, which will be of immense value for research purposes. The 147 plates are of excellent quality and will come in quite handy for die matching specimens.

    Now the fun begins - going back over my collection and locating each coin's BNF catalogue number. This will take some time!

    At least my High School French classes weren't totally wasted!
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

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  4. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Bibliotheque Nationale de France.
     
  5. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    @Roman Collector is correct. BNF is the common abbreviation for the series. Less commonly used are BNC or 'Paris'.
     
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  6. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Nice acquisition David. I see that there are a number available. I may have to grab one soon.
     
  7. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I highly recommend you do so. It's chief importance of course lies in the catalogue and plates - consisting of over 2,500 coins, nearly all of which are pictured. The inclusion of 200 plated denarii and 46 modern forgeries (correctly identified as such) add much value as well.

    The arrangement is based on BMCRE, so no new ground is covered here. One must turn to the new RIC II.1 for that.
     
  8. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    All,

    The BnF's collections are online, available through their Gallica web site. The gateway portal is at https://www.bnf.fr/fr .

    Though not complete this is a work in progress that offers rich rewards for users. Unfortunately for me the site is French centric in language (ahhh, my Francophone parents would shudder ...) but there is an English language search guide for their Greek Coins so I hope the Roman collectors can adopt and adapt it to search for Roman Coins. The Guide is a PDF file at https://blog.cgb.fr/pdf/presentation_monnaies_grecques_sur_bnf_anglais.pdf

    A quick and dirty search using "denarius" gave me 408 web pages (x 50 entries per page) of hits just now. The first 333 pages are Roman Republican denari. The other pages are their holding in numismatic books that mention the word denarius. I didn't go further. Enjoy.

    -Broucheion
     
  9. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Yes, I have consulted the online version many times, but I'm an unapologetic bibliophile and much prefer the physical printed version.

    And might I add the British Museum's collection is online as well, but I much prefer thumbing through my battered copy of BMCRE II!
     
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  10. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    A major addition to any ancient coins library, well done David

    Q
     
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  11. Aestimare

    Aestimare Active Member

    When using Gallica, in order to find quickly a coin, inscribe :
    monngre to find greek coins
    monnrorep to find roman republican coins
    monnroimp to find roman imperial coins
    Name of coins, are latin ones for roman coins : sestertius, but not the french name sesterce.
    Have a nice time David ! :)
     
  12. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    As much as free online resources are handy, sometimes they aren't all they are cracked up to be. Take a look at this entry from the bnf.fr online catalogue.

    751.JPG
    Can you see the gross error? And this isn't the only entry with this problem.

    Don't toss out your physical catalogues quite yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  13. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    The coin pictured is not the coin described. The RIC number is incorrect, the obverse legend is incorrect,and the description of the reverse is also wrong.
     
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  14. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    The obv. and rev. descriptions are for a Domitian Minerva, however, the references cited do match the coin pictured - BNF 751. I've checked quite a few entries in their database and they all have the same error.

    I make it a point only to only cite references I physically have in hand - I don't wish for others to do my attribution work for me. If there is a mistake in my gallery or on my envelopes it's my own.
     
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  15. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    The picture you posted states that the coin is RIC 577. This must be the old RIC, because 577 in the new RIC does not have the obverse legend pictured. If it is 577 in the old RIC that makes it 886 in the new RIC. In that case the obverse legend in the new RIC is a match with the coin pictured. The reverse on RIC 886 is definitely not Minerva, it is a Temple to Jupiter with 6 columns.
     
  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    The RIC number cited is from the old edition but is correct for BNF 751, a sin I can live with - the updated catalogue number is indeed RIC 886.

    The obv. and rev. descriptions don't match BNF 751, a sin I cannot live with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  17. Volodya

    Volodya Junior Member

    Bravo David!

    It's amazing how many dealers--including some pretty prominent ones--don't do this and are content to simply replicate whatever attribution they find on Coin Archives or the like. It's amusing, in a sad sort of way, to watch the same wrong attribution appear over and over, mindlessly copied from what was originally simply a typo.

    Phil Davis
     
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  18. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    Phil, As a collector I must selfishly admit that I do not mind this because it has worked to my advantage a number of times. Many of the rare denarii of Domitian I own come from dealers that repeated erroneous attributions and just did not bother to check the actual references. Many denarii of Domitian are routinely misattributed in both obscure and more prominent sales.

    Here is an example from a recent Roma sale. This coin was attribute as RIC 572. However, it is the very much rarer RIC 573. The difference is the use of GERMAN instead of GERM in the obverse legend. This is an example of why I always read the legends and compare them to the information in the attribution. I then double-check this by looking up the coin in the reference based on the coin itself and not the given attribution. There have been a number of occasions where I have had a mismatch. In most of these cases the coin was a much rarer example than the coin in the mistaken attribution. Of course in some cases the attribution is for for a rare coin while the coin is actually common.

    Overall, do I wish sellers would be more accurate in their attributions? Yes, but I have to admit that I enjoy finding some nice rarities because of their mistakes. In fact I very much enjoy the process of writing my own attributions.

    Domitian RIC 573.jpg
     
  19. Croatian Coin Collector

    Croatian Coin Collector Well-Known Member

    Is there any book that about BnF's coin collection? I prefer looking at coins in a book over looking at them in an internet catalogue.
     
  20. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    I have all the volumes out in print; but almost never use them.


    Giard, J.-B. Monnaies de l 'Empire romain, I. Auguste. Bibliothèque nationale de France. (Paris, 1998).


    Giard, J.-B. Monnaies de l 'Empire romain, II. De Tebère à Néron. Bibliothèque nationale de France. (Paris, 1988).


    Giard, J.-B. Monnaies de l 'Empire romain, III. Du soulèvement de 68 après J.-C. a Nerva. Bibliothèque nationale de France. (Paris, 1998).


    Besombes, P.-A. Monnaies de l 'Empire romain, IV. Trajan (98-117 après J.-C.). Bibliothèque nationale de France. (Paris, 2008).


    Estiot, S. Monnaies de l 'Empire romain, XII.1. D 'Aurélien à Florien (270-276 après J.-C.). Bibliothèque nationale de France. (Paris, 2004). Two volumes
     
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