There has been some talk about counterfeit coins being put in fake slabs at another thread. Can anybody tell me what to look for in a faked slab? Has anybody here actually spotted one? Any pics? It's really a sad day when now you have to wonder if even a slab is faked.
About the only thing (I've heard) you can do is verify the registration numbers against what was slabbed or crack the coin out and verify if it's real or not, usually by weighing the coin and comparing that weight to trusted references like the Red-Book, etc... Chuckle, it's a problem which will eventually lead to mass hysteria within the slabbing community... Ben
this seems careless to me - NGC has buried the alert on counterfeit NGC slabs in their News section on their website. it should be featured on the homepage IMO. http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=954 PCGS has a link on the homepage, but it's a little too subtle for me... http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=5286&universeid=313 -Steve
If the counterfeiter is diligent, it's likely there will be slabs (especially pcgs) that looks right, have matching descriptions and registration numbers such that the only real way to verify is to examine the coin itself closely, possibly even having it authenticated again. That's probably the worst-case scenario, at least until the TPGs can come up with a better solution (see the other thread on interesting solutions from members here).
the best solution is to buy the coin and not the slab. knowing the coin is better than trusting a slab. the best way to learn a coin is to look at hundreds of them. over time you will start to see subtle differences in the coins from different mints and dates. i really enjoy looking at high grade coins that had a long run in production. the Lincoln cent is a good example of such a coin, every few years the coin gets a tweak - i really like the early 60's hair! i have been digging through box after box of Canadian coins to get to a point where i feel comfortable with them. i'm not there yet, but i have the dollars down enough that i feel confident enough to buy a 1948 in MS63 (if i only had the money). -Steve
Definitely the best solution. The problem is that purchasing at a distance, whether from a magazine, or any online venue is one of authentication without in-person inspection. TPGs are supposed to be the solution, the oil in the online-coin-puchasing engine if you will, to facilitate trust in the item. If counterfeits of both coin and slab are such that you cannot visually verify the authenticity and you cannot trust the slab, then what happens to this type of market? Could it be conceivable that counterfeits of both coin and slab will eventually reach levels that make it difficult to ascertain the authenticity of a coin (possibly even in-person!) without the more physical checks similar to what would be done at the TPG such as checking weight, composition, etc? Would certain counterfeits reach that level where one must essentially duplicate the TPG process at each transaction stage? These are possibly worst-case scenarios of course, and it's more likely that such extreme counterfeits would only appear for certain issues, making the problem more confined, but how far could this go?
i typically am interested in coins that have no counterfeit appeal. that's probably the best way to not have to worry about it, but if you enjoy the coins that are counterfeited, then it does present a problem. i have never had a person weigh a coin when buying, but it seems like a smart idea. i think the mail order type model will change - smaller dealers will be able to cater to their clients and build lasting relationships. that's the only way to combat counterfeits - buy from trusted sources who know the real from the fake. the problem will shift from unsuspecting collectors to unsuspecting dealers. don't forget that some counterfeits are bought knowing full well they are fakes - for the guys who will never be able to afford the real coin. -steve
There you go again enjoying yourself watching the TPGs squirm and fight for their lives. Why, if someone didn't know better, they'd think you actually didn't see the need to drive through the TPG tollbooth every time you purchased a coin. :whistle:
In addition to learning/knowing about the coins you are purchasing, it is important to buy from reputable sellers who know what they're doing and will stand behind what they're selling.
"Chuckle, it's a problem which will eventually lead to mass hysteria within the slabbing community..." OOPS, I forgot LOOTING, there will be looters in the scenario as well... Insert LOOTING
It bears repeating that it can be dangerous to rely upon that. It's already known that a number of the counterfeit slabs contain valid ID numbers that have been copied by the counterfeiters.
The TPGs probably don't want to invest in the storage and bandwidth, but it should be possible for them to put close-up photos of every coin they slab on a website that can be accessed by ID number. That way, the photos can be compared to the coin in hand to help determine whether it is counterfeit or real or even the same coin.
Whether the TPG's want or decide to do that, it's is the best solution I've heard, thus far. And I think that unless they can come up with something better, they should do it before things get a lot worse.
Sounds like a great deal, but releasing/showing the TRUTH costs a BIGGABYTE than a TERABYTE... Putting this into historical context the MOABITEs whooped up on the Israelites, but the Israelites came back, etc... I'm afraid this things going to go for thousands of years. I think...
That's the best solution I've heard, also. Storage and bandwidth are getting so inexpensive that this would be a drop in the bucket for a TPG. The photography would be the most expensive part of this, but short of laser cutting a digital code into the coin, (they do this for diamonds, but of course they're not going to do it to coins) it's the best security. There's no reason they couldn't use the same kind of high quality photos used on the Heritage web site.
I really like the idea of images readily available on the TPG's websites. I think cost really would be minimal, as storage pricing is negligible, and I don't think it would be a serious hit on their bandwidth either. It really is sad to see though, buying slabbed coins from ebay had always made me feel a lillte more secure in my transactions. I absolutly love my local coin shop, he always treats me right and gives great pricing, but the selection is limited, thats why I turn to online buying.
Wouldn't the counterfeiters be able to access the same photos- giving them high res images of the exact coin they are trying to copy? Seems to me like the pics could be used to make the replicas even more accurate. Andy
