Cleaned coins vs Uncleaned coins

As an occasional pipe smoker, that is a terrible analogy. Some pipes are straight, some are bent, but regardless of whether they be bent or straight, a well made pipe will always smoke great.

 

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I for one don’t have a problem with cleaned coins. Now I don’t clean them myself other than ones I dig up. But at this time in my life and financial position which isn’t going to improve, those so called “damaged” coins that were cleaned provide me with opportunities to buy coins at a much more reasonable price. I’m not talking about something that looks like someone took sand paper to but I don’t have a problem with a few scratches. I’m not collecting for profit nor do I sell coins. An old coin with some character makes me happier than a blast white coin that sat in a vault all its life. That’s what’s great about this hobby is that everyone can do as they please. If it pleases me to take a soft cloth to remove a smudge on a shiny cent I do it. It’s never going to be worth more than that in my lifetime. For the people who are concerned about value, I understand where you are coming from and am not trying to put anyone down for their collecting styles. To each their own

 

I should add that I collect ancient coins... and almost all ancient coins have been cleaned to some extent.


This one might have been cleaned for the last time less than 20 years ago, which is why she is so bright.


Maybe this one hasn't seen a cleaning in nearly a century, and probably spent decades in a wooden cabinet in a humid environment.


And probably this one hasn't seen a cleaning in over 2 centuries....maybe more!

But they are all cleaned. They have to be after 1,500 - 2,500 years in the ground. I personally never clean any of my silver coins. But I know that regardless of whether they be bright, somewhat toned, or heavily toned.... someone somewhere already cleaned it before I ever got it.

 

Yep, that's essentially what I'm saying.
Any process that doesn't interact with the coining metal is conserving.

For instance a silver dip removes the tarnish from a silver coin.
Tarnish is often the result of sulfur reacting with the silver resulting in silver sulfide.
When you remove the silver sulfide with a silver dip both the sulfur AND the silver are removed.
The coin has therefore been cleaned.
It's surface has been permanently and irreversibly changed.
That's why the surface loses its luster.

The liquids that you mentioned will not do that UNLESS you also use physical (rubbing) action.
The metal "flow" lines caused when a coin is struck give a coin its luster.
They are fragile and easily removed.
That results in a coin with a dull appearance.

 

Yep, you're pretty much right.
If the TPG's were strict about older coins having been cleaned there would be VERY few 19th century graded MS.
So they allow coins that have been "gently" cleaned in the distant past and then allowed to retone without further "processing" to be graded as if having original surfaces, i.e., no DETAILS grade nor Genuine label.

 

That would be interesting for the group. Any links?

 

In this case, I happen to like the "After" better.

 

I can tell you that my father, who assembled Whitman albums of US coinage, cleaned every coin he came across 55 years ago. So did other collectors we knew.

Different era, different standards.

 

I know dealers that dip every silver dollar they sell, because that is what his customers want. There's a dealer in eBay that dips everything, including IHCs and calls them red.
I have a 1921 Peace Dollar I dipped and got it into a PCGS MS65 slab, and got a green CAC sticker on it. It was originally in a NGC MS64 slab. Two TPGs couldn't tell it had been cleaned.

 

I just started trying to get every year Lincoln penny since their are some still out there worth something. My pennies have a brownish color, I cleaned one of them it looks so much better. Even though I can still see everything on them.

 

Like em original. But I don’t feel removing active verdigris on copper and assorted mung on silver with some acetone is a bad thing

 

See, here is where it gets icky... Many new collectors like to clean cents with an eraser and some have indignately posted here that it does no damage. Try looking at these with a 10x lens and a light that you can move around to see the multitude of scratches that have happened. If you can't tell if a coin has been cleaned, IT HASN'T BEEN CLEANED!

Now, with that being said, what cleaning is acceptable and what is not. The most unacceptable practice is rubbing a coin. No matter how soft the cloth you use, if you are scrubbing grit around the surface, how can you not harm it? Rinsing and dipping are in most cases acceptable. Pure solvents should not harm the surface. The most common are water, acetone and xylene. Others are also acceptable but less often encountered, such as hexane, toluene, ethyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol.

Finally there is dipping in tarnish removers which has to be done with care and takes practice.

 

Door #2

 

VERY VERY CLOSE and you probably uncovered my “problem” and confusion.

I entered this hobby as an extension of my metal detecting. Every coin I have was plucked from the ground and often unidentifiable.

So I can say “Yay, I found a coin” or I can say “Yay, I found a 1943S wheat penny!”.

I assume many of the coins collected among you spent their years in drawers, boxes or safes where they watched daytime tv and ate bonbons.

My coins bear the marks and scars of being in the wild but that doesn’t bother me. That’s ok but I’d like to know what they are and clean them so I can proudly display my half dimes and Reales. Selling them is not even likely.

Great point.

 

Most metal detecting finds are not considered "collectable" coins. What I mean by collectable are coins that are readily bought, sold, and traded at shows, coin shops, dealers price lists, and coin clubs. (This isn't a slam on saving damaged coins and I'm not being critical of what people collect, just trying to categorize them for this discussion).

Go ahead and try to clean/conserve/restore coins that suffer from corrosion or other damage. Unless you found something incredibly rare, you won't affect the value. Plus you'll get some practice and experience.

In some ways, we're just stewards of coins trying to preserve them for future generations. Improper cleaning can damage those coins, denying those future collectors of the enjoyment that we know. I think that's one reason I strongly recommend against new collectors cleaning coins.

But go ahead and practice on your detecting finds. Get some experience.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

 

My amateur CSI at work. I had an inkling your detecting was the underlying catalyst to these questions on cleaning.

Go for it. Try to do it as responsible to the conservation of the find as possible.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I also agree that metal detecting finds will undergo some sort of washing, so that is just expected. I do collect ancients and I expect that virtually all have undergone some sort of "conservation". Doing the absolute minimum is a good rule. My default is to not clean.