A Pretty High Tech Coin Plating ring...

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by funnycoins, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    This. Plating a cent that way will make it look silver, and won't alter its weight enough to measure with home equipment.

    I don't know what that plating would do to a Sigma readout, but as I've already said in more than enough other threads, I'm a big Sigma skeptic anyhow.
     
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  3. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    It seems that you might be mistaking the process. It is the planchets for the coin that zinc blanks that are then electroplated for the outside copper metal layer AND then separately made into the cent coin at the end of the minting process. The copper alloy cents are just minted the old fashion way. Your cent shown as "silver" looks far more like "zinc" plated on a copper alloy cent. Jim
     
  4. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Not so much. Zinc is a lot more reactive than copper, and it's tough to find something that will take off the copper without immediately attacking the zinc even more aggressively. In fact, once some of the zinc is exposed, it protects the copper, at the expense of dissolving away even more quickly.

    I suppose it can be done. But I don't see any reason to think it's been done to OP's coin.
     
  5. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    I think the refining process is called the "Mathers and Martin method"
    but using nitric or sufuric acid ? will remove the copper and leave the zinc.

    There's plenty of YouTube videos of how to do this though not recommended for home playing.

     
    -jeffB likes this.
  6. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    There are acids that attack the copper more strongly than the zinc, but they do attack the zinc to some extent as well. That is why cents that have had the copper plating removed (rather than simply having another layer plated over them) have a dull silver gray rough surface with no mint luster.
     
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  7. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Nitric or sulfuric acid definitely won't leave the zinc.

    It looks like the Mathers and Martin method uses sodium polysulfide, which you make from sulfur and lye. I've also seen references to a method using calcium sulfide, which I guess you'd make from lime and sulfur. I may give one of those a try once it cools off. (I'm NOT doing a sulfide reaction indoors.)
     
  8. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    And that still leaves open the question (from another thread) of whether luster makes it through the copper layer to the zinc. My bet is that it wouldn't; the copper layer starts out 20 microns thick, and I don't think flow lines on a die get that deep. Even if some impression of them did make it through the layer, I'm guessing the resulting luster wouldn't look anything like what we're used to seeing on a directly-struck surface.
     
  9. Clawcoins

    Clawcoins Damaging Coins Daily

    I know @rickmp stated in 2018 the 20 micron thick which he referenced a comsol.com blog. But all the US MINT documentation reviews thickness tests and their end result selection of 8 micron thick plating.

    • The US MInt does reference the Royal Canadian Mint's multi-ply tests of 20 microns but for nickels
    upload_2019-7-19_14-16-9.png

    • and some nonsense tests for quarters with 5, 8 & 10 micron thick copper
    upload_2019-7-19_14-20-22.png

    • there were reviews of 25 micron copper over steel
    upload_2019-7-19_14-18-43.png

    • but I've found no documentation of a 20 micron thick cent.
    • but many references of an 8 micron thick plating

    upload_2019-7-19_14-21-51.png

    upload_2019-7-19_14-22-38.png

    upload_2019-7-19_14-23-14.png

    upload_2019-7-19_14-24-4.png

    upload_2019-7-19_14-25-35.png

    • all except for the comsol.com blog
    upload_2019-7-19_14-27-21.png

    • but the US MINT disregarded security (forging) for the cent coin and seemed to disregard the "bullet points" of the comsol blog.
    upload_2019-7-19_14-30-54.png

    I did a quick scan of a couple other US MInt docs but couldn't find a 20 micron reference.
    so .. I'm just curious where the 20 micron plating came from to correct my knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
    -jeffB likes this.
  10. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    All I did was a quick Google search, and Comsol was the site that provided the first result. So, busted, I guess. :rolleyes: If I get some time and remember the task, I'll look up the actual final percentage composition of the cent, and use that, total weight, density of copper, and surface area to try to calculate a thickness.
     
  11. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Perhaps silver nitrate would react with the copper and leave the zinc alone
     
  12. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I'm sure if you timed it right you'd get a nice layer of silver as copper displaced it. (Well, probably not a nice layer, more of a mossy layer most likely.) But if it broke through to the zinc, you'd be in galvanic-destruction land, and soon you'd have a copper shell with silver on the outside and zinc-salt sludge on the inside.

    Edit: I do have a bottle of silver nitrate; I might even be able to find it...
     
  13. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Not sure if the silver would plate out or just form crystals.
     
    -jeffB likes this.
  14. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    Yeah, I'm thinking of the "Christmas tree" demo where you hang a copper-wire form in the solution and silver crystals grow on the wires.
     
  15. funnycoins

    funnycoins no strike, no balls,no outs. Just give me an hour

    "When a copper wire is introduced into an aqueous silver nitrate solution, a single replacement reaction occurs. ... At the beginning of the experiment, the pure elemental form of copper (Cu) is oxidised by the silver nitrate solution. This means that it loses electrons and forms copper ions."
     
  16. Michael K

    Michael K Well-Known Member

    Your plating weights are incorrect. (OP)
    You have a 2.5 coin and .6 of a gram plating to make 3.10.

    The plating on a 2.5 zinc coin is closer to 0.06 of a gram.
    Making the unplated zinc weight 2.44.
    If you were to add that to 2.5, you get 2.56 and not 3.10.

    And if the coin was unplated, it would weigh 2.44,
    and 2.5 after plating.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
    Heavymetal likes this.
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