“Details” Grade Question

Rich I know what you're saying, and yes I agree 100% that the TPGs are way, waaaaaaaay more lenient with things like scratches than they ever used to be. The 1904 that you attached above - that coin has absolutely no business being in a straight grade slab ! I think you're over estimating the size a good bit by saying it's 3/4 in., but it's definitely severe enough to warrant a details slab.

The other 2 coins you posted links to, again the 1904 is questionable at best in my opinion due to that gouge near the bottom, but the Saint, that scratch, if it's a scratch, is not severe enough to warrant a details slab. And I'm a lot more strict than the TPGs are.

But it is that very leniency that makes me question the coin Jim is talking about. I mean given the TPGs are so lenient nowadays, if they detailed a coin for scratch/s then what does that say about the coin ? It tells me the scratch/s are pretty bad. That's what I'm basing my comments on.

Either way, there is no way for us to make a determination without at least seeing the coin.

 

Rich I also want you, and others, to understand that the only reason I made the comments I did regarding grades is this. As long as a TPG tells a submitter what they want to hear - the submitter never questions the TPG. In fact they do quite the opposite - they simply accept the TPGs opinion as if it were carved in stone on a mountain someplace ! Even if and when others tell the submitter that the TPG screwed up, made a mistake - the submitter will almost always simply refuse to believe it !

But let a TPG tell a submitter something they do not want to hear - and the submitter will be jumping up and down asking questions, claiming the TPG couldn't possibly be right ! And if and when others confirm the TPGs opinion, the submitter will still almost always simply refuse to believe it.

The point of course is that people will only believe what they want to believe - regardless of what anyone else tells them.

 

In a way there already is. Things like length, width, depth - they all vary depending on which coin is affected - the smaller the coin, the smaller the scratch has to be. The bigger the coin, the bigger the scratch. Then ya have to throw in location for consideration, is it in a prime focal area, a secondary, a tertiary, and even those vary from coin to coin. On some it's in the fields, others the devices. Even obverse and reverse make a difference.

An experienced grader knows all of this, but few collectors do it seems. And it is my belief that it is their lack of knowledge that usually makes them question, or not question, what the TPGs do and don't do.

And of course the opposite is also true. For when one does know all of that, it also makes one question what the TPGs do and don't do.

But are there actual defined physical measurements ? No, there isn't. But that's largely because unless one has very sophisticated instruments, measuring width and depth is all but physically impossible. Sure length can physically measured fairly easily, the others not. And the same kind of thing applies to any physical damage done to a coin. And that's why determination is left to experience, not physical measurements.

 

I understand the difficulty. But go ahead and post what ya got, you'd be surprised at what is good enough in some cases.