CT's ebay obsession

A very fair question Steve.

I don't blast dealers at shows. Yup gonna be real honest about that.
I will question them, I will "politely" argue grades but a coin show and ebay are different realms.

Why? - becuase I have yet to go to a show with a few thousand, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands dealers. Garbage dealers at shows find out soon enough they are not wanted. If it costs them $25 for a table and they don't sell anything for several shows they realise that they are surrounded by better, more knowledgeable and in many cases more honest dealers. Tougher crowd as well.

Most (not all) people that go to shows know what they want, want to see it in person and will pay a decent premium. More informative buyers here. Sure there are newbies but NOT NEARLY the numbers that are found on ebay.

At a show a dealer can get a bad rep real fast. Not just from potential buyers but from other dealers. Hey, they sit right next to one another. On ebay a bad dealer has a worldwide audience of unsuspecting buyers. That's one hell of a big coin show wouldn't you say?

Honest question and an honest answer.

clembo

 

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I understand the sentiment as I, at one time, felt the need to run to the ancients forum every time I found a fake (or what I thought was a fake) ancient for sale. Its a full time job that almost never does any good as ebay doesn't know you from Adam. Getting people from a coin forum to pile on doesn't help much I would think....nor should it...I dont think most people here should be making that call nor do they need to be teaching anything...I include myself in this generalization. I am not a teacher, I am a collector.

I think I did it because I felt the need to try to 'clean-up' ebay...thought since I had seen a lot of coins that made me some kind of authority. Why does anyone crusade against something. I soon realized it wasn't worth it, nothing I was doing was going to help much. I see fakes there every time I look on ebay...I just pass them by now....and I still see just as many. Sometimes I will post, just for a laugh, some of the real real bad fakes.

 

Also...I think the only way running to a forum to show fakes being sold will do any real good is if experts in that field all agree its fake...they contact the seller to inform them its fake and all the reasons why (and it cant be iffy...). Then if that seller does not take action, they go on a fake seller list that all can read and check when thinking of buying. Something like Forum ancient coins does or the CFDL and other places that compile lists of fakes and post the fakes to be seen and the names of the sellers. Otherwise its just a bunch of threads that will sink and be forgotten.

 

are you boys coming to the central states show. i am getting a feeling i wan to buy one raw coin and its always good to have anoter pair of eyes

 

Clembo is close and ought to go, especially now hes a professional ( wink). My next major is Long Beach in May.

 

Coin collecting as in life. You learn just as much from what NOT to do. I find the ebay discussions helpful in learning what to look for buying and avoiding.

 

Drusus
I agree with you. You wrote exactly my own thoughts on this subject.

 

I will either be painting or working at a coin shop The owner of the shop will be in attendance though.

 

Why are we obsessed with ebay?
Because it is fun!

 

Simply put, dealers on Ebay that are honest sellers with nothing to hide, should have no problem with us ripping those that are crooks and deserve to be put out of business. It's the dishonest ones that find fault in the constant barrage of negative talk concerning shady practices on Ebay and elsewhere. Funny how much some cry foul when others point out the fact that they're crooks who deserve what they get.
Guy~

 

I think one answer to the original question would be, to help protect the hobbie in our own little way. To make people aware, new collectors and experienced as well.
And like Treashunt says.....it's fun!

 

Intelligence is not the issue. Knowledge is what its all about. Someone of average or even lower intelligence, with a great deal of knowledge about a particular coin, is safer following an EBay auction of that coin than a rival to Einstein, with no information about the coin.

As someone else implied, a primary function of this forum is education, and education is what newbies need about the dangers (and benefits) of EBay.

 

IMHO, we are not here to merely point out dishonest Sellers and fakes on eBay! We are here to educate those that want information and help and to share special finds or purchases. Don't fault and lay blame on the members here on C.T. for outting a dishonest Seller or fake coin! The Sellers that run scams or sell problem coins or fakes have put themselves in the sights of all that recognize who and what they are and the blame only lies with them! I have on many occasions gave advice to many a Poster on how to sell and buy on eBay and I do so myself on some occasions. When I sell on eBay, I do not sell fake or problem coins and I do not run scams but if I did and I was outted for it, I would have no one to blame but myself! We could sit idly by and fain blindness to what goes on on eBay and let many good, honest folks get ripped off but we don't! As knowledgeable Coin Collectors, we owe it to the many Coin Collectors that came before us and helped us as we were getting into the hobby and we owe it more to those that come after us, so that they will enter into and continue in the hobby with fun and prosperity! I look at it from a Coin Collectors view and a hunters view! If a hunter takes only one person that is new to the Sport under their wing and educates them in hunting and firearms, then they might just save one new hunter's life and possibly another one from being imprisoned for manslaughter!


Frank

 

I dont sell so I dont fit what you say and I dont like it much...who are you to try to put someone out of business? Who appointed you the guy to 'give people what they deserve'. I often see people run here pointing out something that I dont agree is either fake or wrong...this is the problem...I dont know you from Adam and what makes you an expert? Because you are a collector (or worse a seller) and post on a forum about coins?

I also wonder why people feel the need to take it upon themselves to 'teach' new collectors using thread after thread of eBay sellers. Again...for one...who are they to teach? What credentials? You collect? we all do that...You sell? well at least we know why you want new collectors.

I understand if a new collector comes in asking questions, if you know the answer...great...have an opinion? great as long as its put forth as such. So often I see people step up to answer a question and they are either dead wrong and must be corrected by someone who knows what they are talking about (often when it comes to attribution). Or they TEACH something that is pure opinion thus what they are actually doing is teaching people some subjective rubbish like 'never clean a coin' or 'get it slabbed' or they just proclaim a coin fake from a photo because 'it doesn't look right'.

I am no expert but I have been collecting for a bit so I help when someone asks, only when I know for sure with attribution (even then I am sometimes off). Some fakes are just glaring so those I might point out. Often I try to balance out subjective advice that is given by self proclaimed teachers...to show they are just 'teaching' their own ideas of how something should be and that there are other ways.

More than ever these days I see a flood of self proclaimed experts judging sellers and what they sell...they bad mouth eBay ad nauseum for not pulling an auction or taking quick action simply because they say it should be. EBay is supposed to just take your word for it when they dont know who you are or what you really know. Why should they believe you? Who are you and why should they care? EBay is now working with the ANA experts (or so they say)...so they looked for people to help...experts.

I understand people are hypersensitive to fakes, I am as well...but some people are on a crusade they will never win as they will never remove dishonest sellers, those crooks will never stop selling fakes and you will never stop them. Or they want to teach something to the new collectors when, with many, I have never seen anything from them to make me feel they should be taking up this mission, with some I wouldnt want them to teach how to tie a shoe, let alone anything about coins.

So IMO the best way to help people is to answer their questions when they ask them as best you can, if there is a point you wish to make, thats great but simply posting every fake you find over and over and over again isnt going to do much as the thread will soon be forgotten with all the thousands of other ebay threads...without some permanent listing of fakes and fake sellers, its just another thread about another fake on ebay...same old and nothing will change. Before I buy I often look through various fake seller lists and databases of fake coins... I cannot read every ebay thread here to try and find the seller I am about to buy from to see if people have had problems with them in the past. To be honest, with many of the people here, they are so quick to bash, I often dont agree with their judgment anyway so the thread will be of no help as I dont agree with the way they approach the hobby. As far as I can tell there are a handful of people here that I think are true experts with good judgment when it come to fakes and teaching, these people seldom if ever go out of their way to do so but help when questions are asked...everyone else are just people with a hobby or sellers.

 

Frank

 

Funny how morales lacking justification are always attacked.
Guy~

 

Dont get me wrong, this forum has a lot of cool people who know a lot of stuff but come on. We are collectors no? a hobby...sure it takes money, sure there are fakes and we need to have vigilance but isnt it better just to discuss the coins, photgraph them, research them, share them...then to always be hunting down crooks who try to rip us off...they are in anything you will do and always will be, beware and let others know to be so if they are not. I am not a coin police I am a collector...what qualifies a person to police the hobby...they are not law officers.

Anyway, I think I might have come off rather harsh and if so, I am sorry for that. I know people are just trying to do all they can for the hobby.

 

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I agree that new collectors need to be educated about the "dangers" of shopping for coins on Ebay. As I recall, I said something like that in my original post in this thread. BTW...I've always thought the meanings of intelligence and knowledge to be similar, unless I'm mistaken about that also.

The thoughts you posted in your first paragraph are misinterpreted from the way I wanted to come across, therefore, missing my point. Thanks anyway.